D&D 5E Best Subclass/Build for 1-20 Dragon Heist/Dungeon of Mad Mage Campaign

WASDHammer · Sep 23, 2022

I reached out to this community to help me narrow my choices, but still a bit stuck so coming back to finally help me get over the hump and settle.
As background, starting a 1-20 DH/DoMM campaign so this build choice will be with me for quite some time.
The current party, IMHO, will certainly work but probably isn't fully taking advantage of what an underdark dungeon crawl in the home of a mage has to offer:

Glamour Bard
Padlock (Vengeance 6/Fiend Warlock (Pact of Tome) 14)
Clockwork Sorcerer
Death Cleric (who has stated she isn't really interested in healing)
Eldritch Knight
Me

My observations: We have a ton of casting, but no real INT based. Have ritual casting (Bard, Cleric, Tome Warlock), but nothing to take advantage of the many spell books I've heard are available in DoMM. We have healing but not REALLY based on the Cleric's preferences. We also lack anyone who is good at lockpicking/trap finding. So after much struggling, I've come up with several builds that I would love help selecting. I know the answer is "whatever I will enjoy the most", but...

I have never MC'd in high level gameplay so no idea if the builds are even viable long term
I enjoy being useful but not stepping on toes of others
I enjoy PCs with utility and options (are not a one-trick pony)

I rolled OK, but not GREAT: 17/16/13/12/11/11. So two good stats but can't be too MAD w/o making concessions.
So here are my ideas:

Gloomstalker 5 / Arcane Trickster 15: VHuman w/ SS + CBE. Hits like a truck & great at scouting skills. Super MAD so would need limit to buffs because WIS & INT would stay low for campaign. Also not getting level 3 spells until level 18 (e.g., Haste) feels bad. Not sure about overall utility.
Artificer 1 / Abjuration 19: Sturdy for Wiz (Med Armor + Shield + Arcane Ward). INT casting, but with ability to scale Cure Wounds to heal a bit. Also has Thieves Tools proficiency, albeit not as great at it as option 1. Sort of mage hunter so probably good RP-wise. But redundant spellcaster overall.
Gloomstalker 5 / Twilight Cleric 15: VHuman w/ SS + CBE. Has damage potential but more healing utility. Can get Thieves tool prof. with background but worst at it of the three. Most MAD and weakest stats of the three (need to focus on DEX/CON/WIS + Feats so none gets to 20).
Am I going about this all wrong and should pick something else of go pure subclass (Gloomstalker, AT, Twilight Cleric?)

Again, never played any of these subclasses and never MC'd to 20 so I am worried I am setting myself up for disappointment? Also, am I too worried about the party missing out on the spell books and its really not a big deal? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

ECMO3 · Sep 23, 2022

Rog

WASDHammer said:
I reached out to this community to help me narrow my choices, but still a bit stuck so coming back to finally help me get over the hump and settle.
As background, starting a 1-20 DH/DoMM campaign so this build choice will be with me for quite some time.
The current party, IMHO, will certainly work but probably isn't fully taking advantage of what an underdark dungeon crawl in the home of a mage has to offer:

Glamour Bard

Padlock (Vengeance 6/Fiend Warlock (Pact of Tome) 14)

Clockwork Sorcerer

Death Cleric (who has stated she isn't really interested in healing)

Eldritch Knight

Me

My observations: We have a ton of casting, but no real INT based. Have ritual casting (Bard, Cleric, Tome Warlock), but nothing to take advantage of the many spell books I've heard are available in DoMM. We have healing but not REALLY based on the Cleric's preferences. We also lack anyone who is good at lockpicking/trap finding. So after much struggling, I've come up with several builds that I would love help selecting. I know the answer is "whatever I will enjoy the most", but...

I have never MC'd in high level gameplay so no idea if the builds are even viable long term

I enjoy being useful but not stepping on toes of others

I enjoy PCs with utility and options (are not a one-trick pony)

I rolled OK, but not GREAT: 17/16/13/12/11/11. So two good stats but can't be too MAD w/o making concessions.
So here are my ideas:

Gloomstalker 5 / Arcane Trickster 15: VHuman w/ SS + CBE. Hits like a truck & great at scouting skills. Super MAD so would need limit to buffs because WIS & INT would stay low for campaign. Also not getting level 3 spells until level 18 (e.g., Haste) feels bad. Not sure about overall utility.

Artificer 1 / Abjuration 19: Sturdy for Wiz (Med Armor + Shield + Arcane Ward). INT casting, but with ability to scale Cure Wounds to heal a bit. Also has Thieves Tools proficiency, albeit not as great at it as option 1. Sort of mage hunter so probably good RP-wise. But redundant spellcaster overall.

Gloomstalker 5 / Twilight Cleric 15: VHuman w/ SS + CBE. Has damage potential but more healing utility. Can get Thieves tool prof. with background but worst at it of the three. Most MAD and weakest stats of the three (need to focus on DEX/CON/WIS + Feats so none gets to 20).

Am I going about this all wrong and should pick something else of go pure subclass (Gloomstalker, AT, Twilight Cleric?)

Again, never played any of these subclasses and never MC'd to 20 so I am worried I am setting myself up for disappointment? Also, am I too worried about the party missing out on the spell books and its really not a big deal? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

Of your ideas I like Gloomstalker/Arcane Trickster the most.

I don't see the advantage of artificer. Just get mage armor and start with a high dexterity. Mage armor builds your arcane ward too.

IF you do Gloomstalker/Twilight Cleric your channel divinity is going to render your invisibility irrelevant since it will bathe you in dim light.

A couple others for you to consider:

Warlock 1 (any)-Abjuration Wizard 19: This will give you armor of Agathys, which you can upcast with wizard slots and it rebuilds your arcane ward

Clockwork Soul 4-Abjuration Wizard: Again you can get Armor of Agathys, you also get quicken spell so you can rebuild it as a bonus action without using your action.

Sorcerer 4 - Enchantment Wizard 16. Bonus action spell and then hypnotic gaze.

Bladesinger 16-Arcane Trickster 4 : get your rogue skills and expertise (start as Rogue) but have high level spells. This character is a master in combat using all kinds of bonus actions with their mage hand in addition to laying down awesome spells or if you prefer going into melee with bladesinger attack and a 2d6 sneak attack.

DND_Reborn · Sep 23, 2022

@WASDHammer

My suggestion would be my Ultimate Skill Monkey build: Bard (Lore) 3/ Cleric (Knowledge) 1/ Rogue (Scout) 7/ Wizard (Divination) 9.

With this build you have "expertise" in 4 skills for free (Nature and Survival via the Scout subclass, plus two more from Knowledge domain).
You also have expertise in 6 more skills (4 from Rogue and 2 from Bard).

You begin with 6 Skills (Background 2 + Rogue 4) as well as 2 (Half-Elf) (TOTAL 8)
Bard MC gives you 1 Skill (TOTAL 9)
Free Nature and Survival (Scout) and 2 more (Knowledge: from Arcana, History, or Religion) (TOTAL 13)
Bard 3 (Lore) gives you 3 more Skills (TOTAL 16)

You can pick up the last two skills via Prodigy (available to half-elves) and Skill Expert feats, as well as TWO more expertise skills.

Divination Wizard gives you two portent dice as well, very useful. Any other race which grants one skill (at least) also works, combined with the Skilled feat, gives you all the skills (if you don't want to go the aforementioned Prodigy/Skill Expert route). Halfling's Lucky trait could be helpful.

So, you end up with all 18 skills, and expertise in 12 of them!

Benefits:
1. Bard Inspiration and Jack-of-all-Trades (for tools and other checks, such as initiative bump)
2. Cleric spell access
3. Rogue's Sneak Attack (4d6, making this decent in combat if you don't want to pew pew with cantrips), Cunning action, Uncanny Dodge, and Evasion!
4. Two portent d20's, Arcane Recovery, best Ritual Casting, and 5th level spells.
5. Final "caster level" is 13th, so access to 7th level spell slots.

With your ability scores (17/16/13/12/11/11) I would suggest the following (assuming Half-Elf?):

STR 11
DEX 18 (17+1)
CON 12 (11+1)
INT 16
WIS 13
CHA 14 (12+2)

Observant feat for WIS +1 will give you 14. Your remaining two ASIs can be useful for whatever (DEX 20 would be nice...).

With Bard, Cleric, and Wizard spells, you have all sorts of utility, not to mention a huge selection of cantrips! All your class features gives you a lot of options, especially Cunning Action for bonus actions pretty much every round.

NOTE: You can also go Warlock 9 instead of Wizard, getting a better CHA and lower INT, as well as Eldritch Invocations and spells recovering on a short rest... It is an interesting option IMO (though I prefer Wizard myself). Beguiling Influence can also get you the last to skill proficiencies without using two ASI/feats, but you lose some expertise then.

rgoodbb · Sep 25, 2022

Druid offers a ton of versatility/utility/options:

As much or as little healing as you want depending on subclass. Can be loads.
Getting into places that others can't with wild shape shenanigans
Tanky if needed with Wild Shape
Beautifull environmental control spells. Good utility spells. Very party-useful spells.
A high starting AC if you wish 16/17
Some of the best and evocative cantrips in the game
Great summoner and great subclasses to choose from
Go Goblin for extra survivability/roleplay fun

I know it's not Int based or Spellbooky but neither is your Gloomstalker/Twilight candidate.

To any "What class should I play?" questions, my answer often results in Druid. They are that versatile.

Have fun in whatever you decide.

DND_Reborn · Sep 25, 2022

I agree with @rgoodbb that Druids can be very versatile. If the skill build option I posted isn't appealing (being awesome at skills) then I second the Druid for a lot of versatility in other ways.