D&D 3E/3.5 Best way to implement these in strict 3.5 rules?

[Camarath]

3) I think Crushing Hand would work except it only does 2d6+12 points of damage not upto 100 and would not negate fast healing or regeneration but would ingore DR.

Crushing Hand
Evocation [Force]
Level: Sor/Wiz 9, Strength 9
Components: V, S, M, F/DF
This spell functions like interposing hand, except that the hand can interpose itself, push, or crush one opponent that you select.
The crushing hand can grapple an opponent like grasping hand does. Its grapple bonus equals your caster level + your Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma modifier (for a wizard, cleric, or sorcerer, respectively), +12 for the hand’s Strength score (35), +4 for being Large. The hand deals 2d6+12 points of damage (lethal, not nonlethal) on each successful grapple check against an opponent.
The crushing hand can also interpose itself as interposing hand does, or it can bull rush an opponent as forceful hand does, but at a +18 bonus.
Directing the spell to a new target is a move action.
Clerics who cast this spell name it for their deities.
Arcane Material Component: The shell of an egg.
Arcane Focus: A glove of snakeskin.

 

[Drifter Bob]

3) I think Crushing Hand would work except it only does 2d6+12 points of damage not upto 100 and would not negate fast healing or regeneration but would ingore DR.

Crushing Hand
Evocation [Force]

Not a bad idea but the effect is supposed to be more specific than that.

DB

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Nonlethal damage. This one practically writes itself. Rogues with saps and sneak attack. If you've got a party of 3rd level rogues with saps, a good hide skill, and improved initiative, that's a potential of 6d6 per rogue before the PCs act if the rogues get the drop on them. Give the rogues TWF and that goes up to 9d6. And they can always tumble and flank whoever is left conscious at the end. It depends upon surprise or flanking--then again, most people won't let you hit them on the back of the head with a sap unless you either surprise or flank them anyway.

Spells: Bigby's Crushing Hand is an excellent suggestion. Just because it's more versatile than the effect you want doesn't mean it's insufficient to generate it.

A version that created an invisible hand that couldn't switch targets would look more exactly like the LotR scene and would be reasonably balanced. (Although, why you'd want to imitate that LotR scene, I've no idea; I halfway expected Queen Bathmorda to come out of one of the doors during it).

Summoning an Air elemental to grapple the target or turn into a whirlwind and batter the target around could do it too.

Telekinesis could also do a weaker version of that effect.

 

[Drifter Bob]

Spells: Bigby's Crushing Hand is an excellent suggestion. Just because it's more versatile than the effect you want doesn't mean it's insufficient to generate it.

No, it's a new spell, so copying an existing spell is out of the question. Bigby's hand doesn't work the same way anyway. It's supposed to have a fixed rotating effect, you can control higher or lower, and faster or slower, but that is it. You do not crush.

(Although, why you'd want to imitate that LotR scene, I've no idea; I halfway expected Queen Bathmorda to come out of one of the doors during it).

I was not trying to imitate a LOTR scene, I just cited the scene to provide an image of what it looks like. In retrospect, a bad idea apparently.

Summoning an Air elemental to grapple the target or turn into a whirlwind and batter the target around could do it too.

Closer in some ways, but the sought effect is specifically dismemberment, not battering.

Telekinesis could also do a weaker version of that effect.

This spell is definately similar to a strong telekinetic effect, albiet very specific in it's application.

DB

 

[Drifter Bob]

Nonlethal damage. This one practically writes itself. Rogues with saps and sneak attack. If you've got a party of 3rd level rogues with saps, a good hide skill, and improved initiative, that's a potential of 6d6 per rogue before the PCs act if the rogues get the drop on them. Give the rogues TWF and that goes up to 9d6. And they can always tumble and flank whoever is left conscious at the end. It depends upon surprise or flanking--then again, most people won't let you hit them on the back of the head with a sap unless you either surprise or flank them anyway.

Are you assuming critical hits? Thats less than a 5% chance. Even without them though this D20 modern rule, combined with sneak attack, would at least put it in the ballpark.

DB

 

[Celtavian]

re

Maybe one way to decide between the two, is that an observer scrying the area or viewing it from a long distance should not be under the effect. They would be baffled why a guy in normal gear could seemingly slip through a group of guards or cultists. Would that make it more a charm? Are illusions supposed to work inside your mind or actually create images in space?

Phantasmal Killer works within the mind creating the worst enemy imaginable to the target. You could make some variation of the spell to accomplish the effect you desire.

So maybe a spell like the following:

Phantasmal Disguise
Illusion (Phantasm) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Sorcerer/Wizard 3
Components V,S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target One creature
Duration: 10 min./level
Saving Throw: Will Disbelief (if interacted with)
Spell Resistance: No

The affected creature is percieved to belong to the most trivial, negligible social class or order known to the obsever, and / or whoever would appear the most innocuous in a given situation. I.e., if you were in a busy kitchen, observers would think of you as a cook. If you were in a heavily guarded fortress, anyone noticing you would assume that you were one of the guards.

Only those directly observing the affected creature are affected. If you are watching the creature by other long distance means such as a scrying spell or Clairaudience/Clairvoyance the spell has no effect.



Then you could load this spell into a ring, hat, cloak, or whatever magic item you deemed appropriate.

 

[hong]

4) is a combat issue from the same campaign as the one with the Imp. When I run my game we use pretty extensive house rules for combat, so sometimes things happen which I'm not later certain how to convert into D&D rules.

This is when the players are about 4th level. If they aren't very careful in a particlar area where their guard is probably down, they will get ambushed by some footpads, who use saps to attack from concealment. The footpads seek to capture one or more party members and make off with them in a boat. In our house rules

You know what a sap is of course, this is like a leather sock full of lead shot or even sand, which has been used since time immemorial to quickly knock people out to rob or kidnap them, or just to silence them. The way a sap should work, if you are moderately skilled in the weapon, and can attack someone who isn't wearing a helmet and /or heavy armor from surprise, you should be able to have a good chance of knocking them out. Even if you don't surprise them, a few blows to the head or the back of the neck should be enough to drop most people.

What would be the best way to implement this in 3.5?

The best way to capture PCs in just about any game (not just D&D; CoC might be an exception) is not to bother trying. It'll lead to tears, I guarantee.

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

As far as it goes, why not describe Crushing hand in an different way - playing slightly loose with the details doesn't matter if you ask me... Just set it to grapple, rather than crush. As for the death effect - a differently described finger of death cast when the interogation has finished. Would seem to be a lot easier coming up with new spells to me.

Ah well, here's my attempt:

Spinning Force [Transmutation] [Death*]
Level Sor/Wiz 9
Duration. 1 min/level
Components: V/S
Casting time: 1 action
Range: Close (25 + 5/2 levels)
Target: 1 large sized or smaller target.
Save: Special - None or Fort Negates.
SR: Yes

Creates a large force that grapples the target. It's grapple bonus is your caster level + Int or Chr modifier + 12 strength + 4 for being large. If it successfully grapples them, it tries to pin the target. It attempts this once per round, on the casters turn. While grappled, the target is affected by a effect identical to Dimensional Anchor.

As a free action each round, the caster can direct to force to move the target. They can spin them on the spot and/or move them at a speed of up to 60. This effect gives the caster a +10 bonus to Intimidate checks made to interrogate the target. If the target is run into a hard surface they take 1D6 subdual damage.

If the force or the target move outside of the spell range, then the spell ends immidiately.

As a standard action, the force can be expended to spin the target at fatally high speeds. The target must make a Fortitude save or explode (which kills them. Duh!). If they pass, they take 3D6 damage + 1 per caster level. This is a [Death] effect. Whether successful or not the spell ends.


I feel this is about right for a 9th level spell. It combines dimensional anchor, a very limited bigbys crushing hand, a skill bonus and a death effect.

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

I've had horrible experiences with plots that revolve around capturing PCs. Hell in Freeport nearly ended my campaign, when I ran a botched railroad to capture them... anyway I'll throw in my 2 cents of capturing:

I've heard of a few great party capture methods.

Can't remember who mentioned them but... GM sits down with the party, gives them the bad guys character sheets and gets them to plan how they'd capture their own characters. XP awarded for good planning. I'd really like to try this as a player.

Or sits down with the players and goes - 'I've got this great adventure, but I need you to be captured first. OK to go along with that?' - if so, then possibly skip the fight altogether and start with them captured.

Both of these let the players see 'behind the curtain', but IMO are far preferable to 'unwinnable fights'.

Last one is to give the PCs a reason to be captured. Perhaps it's the only way to get into some particular location. The challenge becomes getting captured without giving the game away. I think it could be a lot of fun, especially if the capture team is pretty weak or incompetent.

 

[Celtavian]

Ok, since y'all are coming up with such good ideas, here are a couple more.

3) is a powerful spell, probably 7-9th level, which has the effect of causing someone to spin aronud and around in the air (think of Gandalf spinning on the floor after Saruman defeats him in the 1st lord of the rings movie- though that is not the source for the spell). The caster can cause them to spin slowly while you interrogate, or you can cause them to spin in wide loops fom very high (say, 100') to very low. Finally, if the caster is not interrupted and does not choose to release her victim, she can cause them to spin at an exponentially increasing rate until they fly apart and die.

I was wondering the best way to implement this spell from an earlier project. The idea is, anything spun at an exponentially increasing rate like that will eventually die if the spell isn't broken first. It should be roughly the same amount of time whether you have 10 hit points or 100, nor should damage reduction, fast healing, or regeneration matter. I had a theory on one way to handle this, but the publisher though it was too far out, and we ended up making the spell much more conventional.

Telekinetic Prison
Transmutation

Level Sorcerer/Wizard 9 (maybe 8, but a pretty powerful spell)
Components: V,S, F
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./level) [I picture this as a fairly short range spell]
Target: One creature
Duration: 1 hour/level or see text.
Saving Throw: Will negates or Fortitude negates; see text.

You encase a creature in a prison made of telekinetic force. The creature receives a Will save to resist being trapped upon initial casting of the spell. The creature is suspended in the air roughly 10 feet from the ground and held immobile. They may still speak and may cast spells with verbal components. They may still perform purely mental actions.

You may choose to have the creature spin at a disorienting rate. A creature trying to enact purely mental actions while spinning must make a concentration check DC 20 + spell level (or equivalent level for spell like abilities). The spinning effect can also helps when interrogating the trapped creature. The creature receives a -2 on Will saves to resist the effects of divination or enchantment spells targetting the creatures mind. Its mind is disoriented causing a lowering of its mental resistance.

At any time during the duration of the spell, you may choose to expend all the spells energy in a single burst causing the imprisoned creature to spin so quickly that it spins apart. It takes three rounds for the creature to reach lethal velocity. If it is not aided by an outside force at the end of the third round, the creature must make a Fortitude save or die. If the creature survives, they are nauseated for 3 rounds, take 5d6 damage, and are free from the Telekinetic Prison.

Focus: A small, hollow diamond globe worth 1,500 gold.

Did you want them to be able to speak? Do you want them to be able to be harmed while they are trapped?

Incorporating a Dimensional Anchor (as inconsequential Al did above) effect into the spell is possible, but might make it a little too powerful. Mibht be better to make the wizard cast the Dimensional Anchor spell, if necessary to imprison a Wizard or enemy known to have translocation magic.

4) is a combat issue from the same campaign as the one with the Imp. When I run my game we use pretty extensive house rules for combat, so sometimes things happen which I'm not later certain how to convert into D&D rules.

This is when the players are about 4th level. If they aren't very careful in a particlar area where their guard is probably down, they will get ambushed by some footpads, who use saps to attack from concealment. The footpads seek to capture one or more party members and make off with them in a boat. In our house rules

You know what a sap is of course, this is like a leather sock full of lead shot or even sand, which has been used since time immemorial to quickly knock people out to rob or kidnap them, or just to silence them. The way a sap should work, if you are moderately skilled in the weapon, and can attack someone who isn't wearing a helmet and /or heavy armor from surprise, you should be able to have a good chance of knocking them out. Even if you don't surprise them, a few blows to the head or the back of the neck should be enough to drop most people.

What would be the best way to implement this in 3.5? I didn't want to give the bad guys a bunch of really high level monk Feats, and the subdual damage rules combined with critical hits seem insufficient. The guys weilding the saps are about 3rd level.

DB

The sap rules are already set. I am disappointed they are so weak as well. In 2nd edition, you could sap someone and have a good chance of knocking them out. Now you just have to do enough non-lethal damage to overcome their hit points.

I look at it this way. Its really easy to knock out a 1st or 2nd level guard for a rogue or strong fighter. If I want to work in a scene where they knock a person out, I just make the NPC to be knocked out low level.

I would just make it a serious fist/sap fight with some magical assistance to capture the party. A decent level rogue should be used to take out any guard using a sap with sneak attack. Then have the other NPC's helping the rogue employ saps and capturing magic. It should take a while to incapacitate a party of adventurers. Kind of like it takes a bit to get James Bond to the point where he can be easily knocked out.