Best Way to Play a Swashbuckler with 3.5 Rules?

Remember that dual-wielding precludes at least one of the Duelist's class abilities (precise strike) and makes it impossible for you to hold an object or swing from a chandelier while attacking. It also makes Spring Attack less useful to you, since you couldn't use Spring Attack and Two-Weapon Fighting at the same time. It's not a horrible idea to have a character with both abilities, but the abilities don't stack perfectly.

I personally prefer the Duelist to the Dual-Wielder as the swashbuckling ideal, because the swashbuckler, with his lightly armored nature, shouldn't be sticking in close for full-round attacks. Stick-and-move should be his game plan, and Spring Attacking is a great way to do that.

Of course, YMMV.
 

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Aluvial said:
Thanks for the help Merric. Good choices too. I like the TWF deal, but have wondered about the Expertise.

Is that for defensive measures only? Or does it lead to Feats that I'm not sure about (I know the one's in the PH, not many others).

Aluvial

Combat Expertise is primarily a defensive trick in this build, but it also leads onto the iconic swashbuckler feats of Improved Disarm, Improved Trip and Improved Feint. :)

There's not much in the CW that it is a pre-req for, but there's a couple of feats there that might be of use, especially if you take a level or two of rogue.

Cheers,
Merric
 


MerricB said:
May I suggest the following build?
(28 point buy, as required)

Human Swashbuckler
Str 13 Dex 15 Con 10 Int 15 Wis 8 Cha 13

Suggestions: Skill points are great, and they're not retroactive. If you're going to boost any stats above 14 -- where you start paying more than 1-for-1 points per ability increase -- put both into Int. You can boost Dex at 4th level and start TWF at 6th level, if you must.

However, IMHO Power Attack might be better than TWF. It works with Rapiers and Spiked Chains (although not with Daggers or other Light weapons).

Power Attack + Charge -> Lunge. Combine this with Dodge -> Mobility -> Spring Attack, tack on Acrobatic Charge, and you can hit pretty hard once per round.

So, here are my suggested revised stats:
EITHER Human Swashbuckler Str 13 Dex 14 Con 10 Int 16 Wis 8 Cha 13
OR Human Swashbuckler Str 13 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 14 Wis 8 Cha 13

In the former case, you've got more skill points, and your damage at level 3+ is higher.

In the latter case, you may be able to stand still and take some damage once in a while. :) For the purpose of sheer survival, I recommend these stats. Con 14 is very nice for anyone who's going to be near combat.

Now for Feats:
1: [Weapon Finesse], Weapon Focus (Rapier), Power Attack
3: Dodge
6: Mobility
9: Spring Attack -- note that since you get this kinda late, you're going to be Acrobatic Charging in, taking a full round of hits, maybe making another attack -- or a full round of attacks -- and eventually Tumbling out to get healed.
12: Combat Expertise
15: Whirlwind Attack

After level 8, though, you should consider taking Duelist levels. You'll add your Int bonus to your AC, so it'll be pulling double duty -- damage and AC bonuses, quite nice. Likewise, your Dexterity will pull double duty -- AC and attack rolls. Any strength bonus you get will still add to damage, so don't scorn an occasional Bull's Strength -- just don't bother buying items that enhance it. You want Headbands of Intellect and Gloves of Dexterity.

Combat Expertise is great for Improved Feint, which allows you to Feint as a move action (so you can Feint and attack in a single round). It's also a pre-req for Whirlwind Attack, a great feat for non-TWF PCs. (Spring Attack is the other pre-req, so you're almost qualified.) The other feats which require Combat Expertise are Improved Trip (cool and cinematic) and Improved Disarm (nice for a cinematic duel).

After level 8 Swashbuckler, you could also dip into Fighter for 2-4 levels, to pick up those Feats that you want: 2 levels for Spring Attack and Combat Expertise, then Whirlwind Attack as your level 9 General feat, or 4 levels to also take Weapon Specialization (Rapier).


Bonus: a CHEEZE(tm) Power Build:
Human Swashbuckler Str 13 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 14 Wis 8 Cha 13

1: Swash1 -- [Weapon Finesse], Weapon Focus (Rapier), Combat Expertise -- Skill Ranks: Balance 4, Bluff 4, Diplomacy 4, Jump 4, Perform (cc) 2, Sense Motive 4, Tumble 4
2: Swash2 -- Grace +1 -- skills as above, Synergy bonuses appear
3: Swash2/Ftr1 -- [Power Attack], Dodge -- Skill Ranks: Climb, Intimidate, Handle Animal, Ride, Swim
4: Swash2/Ftr2 -- Int +1 -- [Mobility] -- (skills as above)
5: Swash3/Ftr2 -- [Insightful Strike] -- skills as per Swashbuckler
6: Swash3/Ftr3 -- Spring Attack -- skills as per Fighter
7: Swash3/Ftr4 -- [Whirlwind Attack] -- skills as per Fighter
8: Swash3/Ftr4/Duelist1 -- Int +1 -- [Canny Defense] -- Skill Ranks: Balance, Bluff, Listen x2, Sense Motive, Spot x2, Tumble
9: Swash3/Ftr4/Duelist2 -- [Improved Reaction +2], Weapon Specialization (Rapier) -- skills as above
10: Swash3/Ftr4/Duelist3 -- [Enhanced Mobility] -- skills as above
11: Swash3/Ftr4/Duelist4 -- [Grace] -- skills as above
12: Swash3/Ftr4/Duelist5 -- Str +1 -- [Precise Strike], Improved Crit (Rapier)

Now, with every hit of your Rapier, you're dealing 1d6 +2 (Str), +3 (Int), +1d6 (Precise Strike), +2 (Weapon Spec), you crit on a 15/x2, and you can attack everyone within 5 ft. of you. Your Duelist levels give you Spot and Listen, which are crucial for not being surprised. If you don't feel the need to Power Attack, drop your Strength to 12 and put the extra point in Charisma, and your 12th level bonus point in Dexterity.

You'll probably want to keep your armor on until 12th level or after, because the bonus from Canny Defense is limited to Duelist level. Even then, since Precise Strike works fine even when wearing armor, you might want to keep on your Mithral Chain Shirt +2. (If it's better than +2, you really might want to keep it!)

After 12th level, you could continue with Duelist (up to 17th level), then take 3 levels of whatever -- Rogue would be interesting, but Swashbuckler is kinda empty for those levels, especially since you already have Acrobatic Charge from Duelist.



Bonus #2: SUPER UBER DUPER CHEEZE(tm) Spiked Chain Build:
Human Swashbuckler Str 14 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 14 Wis 8 Cha 12

1: Swash1 -- [Weapon Finesse], Combat Expertise, Power Attack -- Skill Ranks: Balance 4, Bluff 4, Climb 4, Diplomacy 4, Jump 4, Sense Motive 4, Tumble 4
2: Swash1 / Rogue1 -- SA +1d6 -- Skill Ranks: Perform x4, Balance, Bluff, Climb, Diplomacy, Jump, Sense Motive, Tumble
3: Swash1 / Rogue 1 / Ftr1 -- [Exotic Weapon (Spiked Chain)], Dodge -- Skill Ranks: Climb, Intimidate, Handle Animal, Ride, Swim
4: Swash1 / Rogue1 / Ftr2 -- Int +1 -- [Mobility] -- (skills as above)
5: Swash2 / Rogue1 / Ftr2 -- [Grace +1] -- skills as per Swashbuckler
6: Swash2 / Rogue2 / Ftr2 -- [Evasion], Spring Attack -- skill ranks: Hide x2, Move Silently x2, Spot x2, Listen x2, Balance, Bluff, Diplomacy, Sense Motive, Tumble
7: Swash3 / Rogue2 / Ftr2 -- [Insightful Strike] -- skills as per Swashbuckler
8: Swash3 / Rogue3 / Ftr2 -- Int +2 -- SA +2d6 -- skill ranks: Hide x2, Move Silently x2, Spot x2, Listen x2, Balance, Bluff, Diplomacy, Sense Motive, Tumble, Intimidate
9: Swash3 / Rogue3 / Ftr3 -- Whirlwind Attack -- skills as per Fighter
10: Swash3 / Rogue3 / Ftr4 -- Weapon Focus (Spiked Chain) -- skills as per Fighter
11: Swash3 / Rogue3 / Ftr4 / Duelist1 -- Skill Ranks: Balance, Bluff, Listen x2, Sense Motive, Spot x2, Tumble
12: Swash3 / Rogue3 / Ftr4 / Duelist2 -- Int +1 -- Weapon Spec (Spiked Chain) -- skills as above

As with the above build, you'll probably want to keep your Mithral Chain shirt for a while.

Starting at level 9, you can attack everyone within 10 ft. using Whirlwind Attack. It's a sweet feature of the Spiked Chain. For an even trickier build, forego Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization in favor of Improved Trip and Combat Reflexes. Every time you get an AoO, use it to trip your opponent (with an immediate bonus attack thanks to Improved Trip). For extra bonus fun when surrounded, see if you can make a Trip attack against everyone within 10 ft. of you. If you succeed, you get a bonus attack on them (from Improved Trip). When they attempt to stand up again, you get an AoO, which you use to attempt another Trip attack. Make your foes look clumsy and stupid! The joy of swashbuckling! :)

Your damage at 12th level is: 2d4 +3 (2-handed Str) +3 (Int) +2 (Weapon Spec), and when you Power Attack, you deal 2-for-1 damage thanks to Spiked Chains being 2-handed. You won't get Precise Strike with your Spiked Chain, so you might not want to take more than 4 levels of Duelist -- you'll have the skill and feat requirements to go into Shadowdancer if you wish, or Exotic Weapon Master, or a bit of both.

-- N
 

Elder-Basilisk said:
About the alignment: I think LN is a perfectly fine swashbuckler alignment.

I think I agree, but I'm not really sure the Musketeers fit the example too well. Most of them are entirely willing to engage in duplicity (Porthos pretends to be his mistress' cousin, D'Artagnan plays with both Kitty's and Milady's hearts; Kitty's at least anyhow. Aramis is always involved in scheming and is connected with people who, IIRC, are at least out of favour with the king. Athos is about the only one that one can't say such things about, I guess.

They're perfectly willing to put their own sense of honour above the law, to fight a duel or the Cardinal's Guards, or to put the Queen's honour above that of the land, in the case of the diamond necklace adventure.

D'Artagnan's father wasn't murdered by anyone, unless it was in a later book I didn't read. Are you thinking of the Disney movie? Blah.

Captain Blood: Initially sold into slavery for upholding his oath as a doctor when it was inconvenient to him. Did not join the rebellion against the king despite being obviously sympathetic. After gaining the captaincy of the pirate vessel, behaves with honor and decorum in his treatment of prisoners. IIRC, refuses to attack English vessels. (Still a loyal citizen despite his exile and unjust treatment). Returns to the service of his country as a Privateer as soon as William and Mary take power in England.

True, although he seemed to expect that his status as a doctor would protect him from prosecution.

Better examples might be Flynn's character from The Sea Hawk film, the Captain from Pirates of the Caribbean, although Will Turner is pretty lawful I'll agree (esp. in comparison with Jack Sparrow), or Gaston de Bonne from the book A Gentleman of France, who faithfully acts as a King's agent at arm's length, since the King can't be seen to support him publically.
 
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CCamfield said:
I think I agree, but I'm not really sure the Musketeers fit the example too well. Most of them are entirely willing to engage in duplicity (Porthos pretends to be his mistress' cousin, D'Artagnan plays with both Kitty's and Milady's hearts; Kitty's at least anyhow. Aramis is always involved in scheming and is connected with people who, IIRC, are at least out of favour with the king. Athos is about the only one that one can't say such things about, I guess.

They're perfectly willing to put their own sense of honour above the law, to fight a duel or the Cardinal's Guards, or to put the Queen's honour above that of the land, in the case of the diamond necklace adventure.

All true and relevant--assuming that you consider the law of the land to be more important to lawful alignment than personal honor. I think that personal honor is just as important to lawful alignment as the law of the land though (or at least that's the usual line people take when they ask "how does the (lawful) paladin act when in the realm of the wicked tyrant?") The PHB mentions lawful characters as possibly following a strong personal code so I don't think that's an unusual interpretation either.

I don't think that anyone will mistake the Three Musketeers for paragons of lawfulness--just that you can make a good case for their exhibiting strong lawful qualities. (Whatever that means--this is beginning to touch on the area where I think that the law/chaos axis becomes thoroughly incoherent).

D'Artagnan's father wasn't murdered by anyone, unless it was in a later book I didn't read. Are you thinking of the Disney movie? Blah.

I suspect I am thinking of the Disney movie. (I thought it was reasonably entertaining if not particularly good cinema). I've seen it much more recently than I read the book. Still the swashbuckler singlemindedly seeking revenge for his murdered father (or other wrongs) is a rather common character. Inigo Montoya of the Princess Bride springs to mind and I'm certain there's a lot of others.

Better examples might be Flynn's character from The Sea Hawk film, the Captain from Pirates of the Caribbean, although Will Turner is pretty lawful I'll agree (esp. in comparison with Jack Sparrow), or Gaston de Bonne from the book A Gentleman of France, who faithfully acts as a King's agent at arm's length, since the King can't be seen to support him publically.

Apparently I need to expand my repertoire of swashbuckling knowledge.

The captain from Pirates would definitely have been a better choice for a lawful swashbuckler than Will--the only problem is that he wasn't particularly swashbuckling in the movie. (Though I suspect he would have been had he been a more major character).
 

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