D&D 5E Better Leonin

[Fenris-77]

The wrestling eloquence bard named King. Or the valor bard named King. Or named for other royal titles. Ready to goddamn create his own legend. \m/

 

[Xenonnonex]

Ugh, really?

+2 Str, +1 Con really is the Fire/Fighting of D&D.

Yeah. It sure is lame.

 

[Xenonnonex]

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[NaturalZero]

I'm just sick of puny natural weapons taking up space as racial features. They're almost always garbage compared to what a real character is doing in a real campaign. Really, the only time a 1d6 natural weapon that can stand in for an unarmed strike is useful is for a monk's bonus action attack before 5th level, so it's like a gain of 1 point of damage. For every other class, it's useless.

I think the only natural weapon that works decently is the longtooth shifter. 1d6+Str as a bonus action means you always have a chance to proc a smite or superiority die each round without Polearm Master or getting lucky with Great Weapon crit.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Best to read the book. The book is still good. Despite a few brainfarts.
They were another Con and Str race. I felt it more appropriate for the lion race to be Cha and Str. What the lion symbolizes went into the change.
Their claws were too weak.

Nope. The characteristics of leonin are already established by MtG, they are strong and tough, not strong and charismatic. But more importantly, they are established as almost-always-atheists. So you wouldn't expect them to produce many paladins. As for their claws, they are depicted using weapons, which they wouldn't bother with if claws where a better option.

D&D already has a charismatic cat race - two if you include swiftstride shifters as well as tabaxi. It also already has a "you can play any class as long as it's paladin" race.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I'm just sick of puny natural weapons taking up space as racial features.

You wouldn't expect natural weapons to be as good as manufactured weapons, or we would all be using them and Earth would be ruled by sabre-toothed tigers. They are there as a back-up in case you get disarmed or whatever. They do not "take up space" - there is no limit on the number of racial features you can have, and satyrs, for example, are plenty strong with or without their headbutt attack.

 

[Xenonnonex]

I'm just sick of puny natural weapons taking up space as racial features. They're almost always garbage compared to what a real character is doing in a real campaign. Really, the only time a 1d6 natural weapon that can stand in for an unarmed strike is useful is for a monk's bonus action attack before 5th level, so it's like a gain of 1 point of damage. For every other class, it's useless.

I think the only natural weapon that works decently is the longtooth shifter. 1d6+Str as a bonus action means you always have a chance to proc a smite or superiority die each round without Polearm Master or getting lucky with Great Weapon crit.

You would love the "official" leonin. And their puny 1d4 + Str mod.

 

[Xenonnonex]

Nope. The characteristics of leonin are already established by MtG, they are strong and tough, not strong and charismatic. But more importantly, they are established as almost-always-atheists. So you wouldn't expect them to produce many paladins. As for their claws, they are depicted using weapons, which they wouldn't bother with if claws where a better option.

D&D already has a charismatic cat race - two if you include swiftstride shifters as well as tabaxi. It also already has a "you can play any class as long as it's paladin" race.

Okay for Magic. Silly for any other concept of a lion humanoid. And goes against what lions symbolize. Canon should not be restrictive.

The real problem is D&D has too many Str and Con races.

 

[NaturalZero]

You wouldn't expect natural weapons to be as good as manufactured weapons, or we would all be using them and Earth would be ruled by sabre-toothed tigers. They are there as a back-up in case you get disarmed or whatever. They do not "take up space" - there is no limit on the number of racial features you can have, and satyrs, for example, are plenty strong with or without their headbutt attack.

Whether or not they're as good as manufactured weapons in real life is beside the point. The designers make the conscious decision to put a worthless claw attack in the racial block or replace it with a teleport, hellish rebuke, flying, or any number of other racial features that PC races get. They could have put something generally useful in that space, but they chose to put something that is mostly useless. I have no idea if the satyr is loaded up with great features, but there are certainly PC races where natural weapons seem to be included as if they were useful.

 

[Mecheon]

. But more importantly, they are established as almost-always-atheists

I mean, that's Theros Leonin. Mirrodon Leonin are a bit more on the religious side.

I have no idea if the satyr is loaded up with great features, but there are certainly PC races where natural weapons seem to be included as if they were useful.

Satyrs are absolute powerhouses in terms of features. Stronger than Yuan Ti level. I'm agreeing that natural weapons are pretty much just flavor abilities at this point but uh, at least the roar scales better than Dragonborn's dragon breath?