D&D 5E Better Leonin

Xenonnonex · Jun 3, 2020

Mecheon said:
I mean, that's Theros Leonin. Mirrodon Leonin are a bit more on the religious side.

Even in Magic there are differences.

Satyrs are absolute powerhouses in terms of features. Stronger than Yuan Ti level. I'm agreeing that natural weapons are pretty much just flavor abilities at this point but uh, at least the roar scales better than Dragonborn's dragon breath?

Seems satyrs are damn OP.

Mecheon · Jun 3, 2020

Xenonnonex said:
Seems satyrs are damn OP.

I mean, Variant Human is still king. But can't argue with Fey ancestry, Magic Resistance and three free proficiencies

Charlaquin said:
+2 Str, +1 Con really is the Fire/Fighting of D&D.

They're at least +2 Con, +1 Str which is at least slightly different? But unfortunately its just sort of the niche a lot of these fall into

Paul Farquhar · Jun 3, 2020

NaturalZero said:
Whether or not they're as good as manufactured weapons in real life is beside the point. The designers make the conscious decision to put a worthless claw attack in the racial block or replace it with a teleport, hellish rebuke, flying, or any number of other racial features that PC races get. They could have put something generally useful in that space, but they chose to put something that is mostly useless. I have no idea if the satyr is loaded up with great features, but there are certainly PC races where natural weapons seem to be included as if they were useful.

No, they don't. There is no "space". They give it a natural attack because if fit the physicality of the race. It is not "instead of" another feature.

Charlaquin · Jun 3, 2020

Mecheon said:
They're at least +2 Con, +1 Str which is at least slightly different? But unfortunately its just sort of the niche a lot of these fall into

Huh. Yeah, I guess technically that’s a new combination. Functionally it doesn’t make a difference for standard array or point buy. Might tempt folks to assign rolled stats a liiiiiitle differently I guess. At any rate, it’s still strength and con, which is fine, but been done to death.

Paul Farquhar · Jun 3, 2020

Xenonnonex said:
Even in Magic there are differences.

Yup, but these leonin are theros leonin. Which brings us to another point - Theros PCs can get an extra bonus feat at first level. So, if you really want to create a leonin paladin you can start with +1 str +2 con and +1 cha.

Seems satyrs are damn OP.

Races are not "balanced" in 5e. Satyrs are good, but vuman is still better.

Paul Farquhar · Jun 3, 2020

Charlaquin said:
Huh. Yeah, I guess technically that’s a new combination. Functionally it doesn’t make a difference for standard array or point buy. Might tempt folks to assign rolled stats a liiiiiitle differently I guess. At any rate, it’s still strength and con, which is fine, but been done to death.

Again, I point to the potential extra +1 Threos PCs can get, which can stack with a +2, allowing a point buy character to start with an 18.

Xenonnonex · Jun 3, 2020

Paul Farquhar said:
Yup, but these leonin are theros leonin. Which brings us to another point - Theros PCs can get an extra bonus feat at first level. So, if you really want to create a leonin paladin you can start with +1 str +2 con and +1 cha.

And these are "better" leonin. From non restrictive canon.
Also that is a can get. A might get. Not an assured get. Playing with the feat cannot be assumed.

Races are not "balanced" in 5e. Satyrs are good, but vuman is still better.

Not saying races have to be balanced. I am saying the saytr gets a lot.

Paul Farquhar · Jun 3, 2020

Xenonnonex said:
And these are "better" leonin. From non restrictive canon.

And this is a Theros book with Theros canon and Theros rules.

But even taken abstractly your "better" leonin are just hairier dragonborn with the same always-paladin fundamental flaw.

A 1d6 natural weapon is just as irrelevant as a d4 natural weapon, you will still be using a sword until disarmed. Just ask the lizardfolk.