(+) Beyond 2024 - Reprinting and reselling subclasses

[Mirrorrorrim]

This is my first thread. Let's see how this goes. This poll is for people who might ultimately choose to buy the 2024 PH if they like it. (It's fine if you're a remote maybe, but aren't sure yet.) This poll is not for those who are certain they are not interested in the 2024 rules. I don't want the thread to get sidetracked about 2024 not needing to exist in the first place. It's about viability of a product for an existing purchasing fanbase.

I'm curious. After the 3rd to 3.5 transition, Wizards updated and resold the "Sword and Fist" style Prestige Class series in the "Complete" series of books so that they were compatible with 3.5. Some liked it, some were annoyed that they had to buy them again.

With the changes we're seeing already (from changing levels, to new options, to updated options), would you be interested in a future "Complete Subclass" kind of book that updated all the subclasses that did not yet get the 2024 treatment, if it was good? Or would you rather Wizards redesign them in as errata in future printings of Tasha's and the like, and if you already had that book on DDB, get it for free on DDB? Or would you not care and convert stuff yourself?

*Edited for clarification of scope: Let's assume they did not add new subclasses, they just updated all existing subclasses not already in the PH 2024.

 

[Zaukrie]

How many are there going to be? I'm leaning no, but am not sure of my answer.

 

[WanderingMystic]

So first of all they won't be just updating digitals on DDB that is not even remotely a possibility. That being said if the archetypes were compleatly overhauled then yes I would buy a new book that was just updated older ideas.

 

[WanderingMystic]

This is exactly what Mordenkanen Monsters of the Multiverse was.

 

[niklinna]

If O/1/One/R5E/5ER/2024/Revised-Definitely-Not-5.5-or-6E D&D were to somehow recapture my interest, I would ideally prefer to see all currently official subclasses in the Player's Handbook, revised and retuned, page count be darned. Well, ideally there wouldn't be subclasses but open lists of features you get to pick as you hit subclass-equivalent milestone levels, but then I'd be playing Pathfinder 2e, wouldn't I? But, you know, as a fallback option, a separate book of all subclasses—including those from the Players Handbook, page count be darned—would be nice.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

The 3.5 hardcover splatbooks were, as a general rule, much better and more robust than the 3E floppies. They dropped a few things they shouldn't have (some of the lists of cool arcane stuff in Tome & Blood, for instance), but they were overall an improvement, not least because WotC had a better handle on the system by that point.

If there's a similar value-add in the new book, that's fine. (For the record, I find Monsters of the Multiverse a good upgrade to Volo's and Mordenkainen's First Book, as I found most of the lore in those to be underwhelming. Gimme back that shelf space along with improved -- IMO -- stats.)

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

How many are there going to be? I'm leaning no, but am not sure of my answer.

I'm thinking all Wizards of the Coast subclasses not already in the PH 2024

 

[TwoSix]

I don’t think they should reprint any extant subclasses, either in the PHB or elsewhere, with the possible exception of redoing subclasses that didn’t hit the mark in their first iteration.

If subclasses need to be “redone” to be usable with revised 5e classes, then they failed to hit the mark in terms of backwards compatibility.

 

[Kobold Stew]

I would much prefer a consolidated book to spreading them over several books, which I feel is the alternative. A player-focused expansion book a la Tasha's or Xanathar's (with a dash of MotM) in 2026 (say) would be what I'd expect.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

I don’t think they should reprint any extant subclasses, either in the PHB or elsewhere, with the possible exception of redoing subclasses that didn’t hit the mark in their first iteration.

If subclasses need to be “redone” to be usable with revised 5e classes, then they failed to hit the mark in terms of backwards compatibility.

So it sounds like if they stick with all subclasses being moved to 3rd level, like the Life Cleric does, or subclass features change levels, you think it is a forgone conclusion that they missed the mark completely?

 

[Zaukrie]

I'm thinking all Wizards of the Coast subclasses not already in the PH 2024

I think they should fix everything and sell it. I'd be 90% likely to buy it on dndbeyond....

 

[Zaukrie]

I don’t think they should reprint any extant subclasses, either in the PHB or elsewhere, with the possible exception of redoing subclasses that didn’t hit the mark in their first iteration.

If subclasses need to be “redone” to be usable with revised 5e classes, then they failed to hit the mark in terms of backwards compatibility.

"need" vs improved are two different things.

 

[Vael]

I said no, but I'd say yes if there was more to it. A pure reprint book would annoy me, even if things were errata'ed and rebalanced. I'd want something new. So ... would I buy a "Expanded Players Handbook" with revised subclasses, and new ones and the Artificer and maybe another class? Yes

 

[Zaukrie]

I said no, but I'd say yes if there was more to it. A pure reprint book would annoy me, even if things were errata'ed and rebalanced. I'd want something new. So ... would I buy a "Expanded Players Handbook" with revised subclasses, and new ones and the Artificer and maybe another class? Yes

100%

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I don’t think they should reprint any extant subclasses, either in the PHB or elsewhere, with the possible exception of redoing subclasses that didn’t hit the mark in their first iteration.

What about 2014 PHB subclasses? Those would go out of print when the new core books are released.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I would much prefer a consolidated book to spreading them over several books, which I feel is the alternative. A player-focused expansion book a la Tasha's or Xanathar's (with a dash of MotM) in 2026 (say) would be what I'd expect.

January 2025 feels like the latest we'll see such a product.

 

[TwoSix]

What about 2014 PHB subclasses? Those would go out of print when the new core books are released.

My expectation is that the PHB should be just as much expansion for the 5e line as a whole as it is a retrenchment of the line. Ideally, with 48 subclasses, I'd like to see about 1/4 PHB redux (for subclasses than need changes), 1/4 redux of subclasses from pre-existing material (TCoE, XGtE, primarily), and 1/2 novel ideas.

In a world where the primary channel of release is going to be digital, the fact that some material isn't in "print" ceases to be an issue.

 

[TwoSix]

So it sounds like if they stick with all subclasses being moved to 3rd level, like the Life Cleric does, or subclass features change levels, you think it is a forgone conclusion that they missed the mark completely?

I don't consider subclasses simply moving levels to be a major point of conversion. I also expect the new PHB will have conversion material to explain the necessary minor changes to use pre-2024 subclasses with 2024 classes.

If it doesn't do that, it doesn't meet the mark for my expectations, and I won't feel the need to purchase the PHB.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

In a world where the primary channel of release is going to be digital, the fact that some material isn't in "print" ceases to be an issue.

Well, that's a hypothetical world. At the moment, plenty of people still buy the hardcover books. (Cue all the folks posting Amazon stats.)

Why do we want a new player in 2026 to not have the ability to pick up a PHB subclass from 2014 without hunting it down on D&D Beyond?

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I don't consider subclasses simply moving levels to be a major point of conversion. I also expect the new PHB will have conversion material to explain the necessary minor changes to use pre-2024 subclasses with 2024 classes.

Yeah, they specifically said they'd include this in the PHB at the summit, which is nice.