bicameral legislation, kings and popes.

[alsih2o]

i have just begun a campaign online with a strong central theocracy ruling over several cities with partial charters. the thocracy is managed by a central council, which reports to a bicameral legislature (of priests). i have the council runnign things day to day, and the houses handling laws and money.

i am wondering how everyone else handles government. i assume royal leadership is the norm, so i would like to hear about what besides monarchies have worked for folks.

troll oligarchy? illithid plutocracy? stinted republic built by a magocracy? what kind of government do you have in your world? or is it just something boring people do in big building whilst the more interesting folks go places, kill monsters and take their stuff?

 

[MeepoTheMighty]

Well, the kobolds in my world live in communist societies...I figure they're a lawful society, their tribal groups are probably just the right size for it to work, and weaker creatures might be more willing to band together for the common good. Plus it gives a great chance to try out my hybrid russian/draconic accent.

The large theocratic empire in my world has a bicameral system. The upper house consists of priests appointed by the pontiff, and they control all foreign, military, and religious concerns. The lower house concerns itself mostly with domestic matters, but it generally holds ultimate control over taxation and the raising of military units. In several cases, the upper house has declared war on an enemy only to be crippled by the lower house refusing to provide any troops. The upper house can impeach members of the lower house, but not vice versa. Members of the upper house tend to be impeached on the end of a knife

 

[willpax]

I have one free city that runs along communal anarchist lines. Any group of at least one thousand persons can form a "faction" and gain a seat on the City Council. For every thousand residents you enroll in your faction, you gain another seat. Most of the factions are mercantile in nature (being an extension of the trade guilds that dominate the economy), although some racial and ethnic groups exist to represent small alien groups that reside in the city. A census is performed at the autumnal equinox each year (the time of year where rural types are least likely to reside in the city).

The factions have authority to regulate their members however they see fit, and most also pledge protection to their members. This protection is the closest thing to a city watch: if you victimize a member of a faction, that faction may send people to track you down and right the wrong. Traditional retribution formulas exist to prevent this cycle from spiralling out of control most of the time.

By tradition, however, there is a City Guard that controls the main source of revenue: a head toll at each of the city gates. The Guard exists primarily as a kind of neutral party in disputes among factions.

Most of the surrounding political units (feudal and tribal) find the government of this city to be insane. In truth, it exerts an influence far smaller than its economic power would indicate because it is difficult to get the Council to agree to anything beyond basic economic promotion and local security. The inhabitants are fiercely proud of their rights, however, and the city has never been taken by force.

Most opponents simply use the fluid power structure to influence the policy of the city to their benefit, if they have the ability.

 

[dave_o]

I LOVE political campaigns. Thus, my homebrew (Eldram) has a good deal of political background - though rarely is it ever tapped.

For my current campaign, the All-Favors Mercenary Company is sort of a government in and of it's own. Most of this revolves around the acclaimed "pillage contract". As Deal's main military body, AFMC happens to keep treaties with the neighboring settlements, be they human, or goblinoid. The pillage contract is the main lure of AFMC. Any solider (Master Woodsman or higher) can draw up a pillage contract, verify it with any existing treaties, and basically do whatever they wish.

Pillage contracts are also used for useful things, such as repairing things that need immediate attention, escorting caravans, etc.

So, obviously, AFMC is a bureaucracy. There is a small, democratic portion, in the Woodsman General's council, a meeting of the highest of the high. Each of the council of ten gets a vote, and AFMC actions, on this scale, are decided by a simple majority.

However, the council rarely meets, as the bureaucratic ways of the remainder of the company handle things quite efficiently - if not so well.

The campaign will also have dealings with the Imperium, the main governing body in Eldram. It's mostly based on the Roman governmental system, though a few things stick out:

• The Imperium keeps at least one federal building in each settlement, typically referred to as the "Imperial Inn". Which isn't such a misnomer, as one of the purposes of the Inn is to offer semi-affordable lodging for any legal citizens. It's mostly, however, just a reason to station a contigent of guards to quell any anti-Imperial feelings.
• While it is a bicameral legislation, with a house of Plebians and a house of Senators, the Emperor has written several clauses into the Orders (constitution) which grant him much power in the way of legislation.
• The populace is generally happy with the government, and at worst, they consider it a petty annoyance. This, coupled with the fact that most rebellions are dealt with quite harshly, keeps anti-Imperial feelings down.

Argh. Now I wanna run a political campaign.

 

[Reprisal]

I've always been intensely interested in the way different forms of government handle the problems that always come with leading a city, country, or empire. It's part of the reason I got into political science, and it's part of the reason I've been the main DM in my group. To me, it seems that if I have a handle on these big picture issues, it's another obstacle that's out of the way. Of course, one can argue that it rarely comes up in the day-to-day and session-to-session operation of a campaign, but at the same time, I think things could grind to a halt if these sorts of things weren't at least thought of beforehand.

Having an acceptable system of governance in place can also help build a sense of immersion in a particular campaign experience. Even if the characters, or even the players themselves, aren't aware of the way laws and acts and what-not are developed in a city/country/empire, it still gives me peace of mind as a DM. If it ever comes up, I have that government and political culture thing handled.

- - - - -

On another note, I'm quite enamoured with creating different forms of government for different entities. Often, I do it much in the same way that an author might write a mystery -- starting with the end and working backwards. I'd start by saying, I think this country should be a "Constitutional Theocracy." At that point, I would formulate a quick and dirty set of history, events and that sort of thing to lead to a specific political culture that would support such a government.

I guess it would be quite comparable to creating a character with a specific idea in mind. I want this character to be able to do (this) well, and do it for these reasons. Therefore, her background would be constructed with the end result in mind. Top-down creation, basically.

- - - - -

There are so many forms of government out there that it's difficult to construct any list that would be considered worthy. There are so many forces at work when constructing a political system -- culture, geography, foreign relations, racial composition... It really depends on where you want to start. One could start with the people and work up from there...

"Dwarves are like (this), so with a level of political complexity in mind, they would have a government that would look like (this)..."

Conversely, you could start with a government system in mind...

"I want a harsh and militant theocracy and I want it populated by elves. Now, how can I mess with the elves in order to have them arrive at this system of government?"

There are a myriad of permutations in this process...

"I want a well-meaning, but ultimately meddlesome, Mercantile Oligarchy that would act according to what it saw as universal truths. Now, what sort of people would live in such a society? 'Obviously' there would be humans at the forefront, but I can see other races involved here."

And...

"I have a race of impatient, paternalistic elves that are so convinced with the superiority of their culture that they would impose their views on other, lesser races. What sort of government would they adopt? An imperial system perhaps..."

Etc, etc, ad infinitum...

- - - - -

Magocracy, Technocracy, Monarchy, Oligarchy, Theocracy, Democracy, Anarchy (Collectivist or Individualist)...

Federation, Confederation, Republic, Kingdom...

Benevolent, Liberal, Conservative, Dogmatic, Despotic...

So many qualifiers, descriptors and adjectives!

- - - - -

To be honest, I don't think the political and economic aspect of fantasy has been explored enough. I can think of a load of hooks that could have nationalistic/etc player-characters adventuring for dozens of sessions. The problem, however, is getting those players to be able to get into the mindset of their civic/national/imperial interests and act accordingly -- and reliably.

We should start a project someday, just creating a single nation-state or empire in detail, one after the other. I think it might be neat, but that's just me, the Political Scientist.

- Rep.

 

[fusangite]

Here's a lengthy excerpt from the background material for my campaign explaining the basis of my theocratic state theory:

Miranov and Orthanov, Sons of Ksheytrand

When Ksheytrand died, he left two sons. The eldest, Miranov soon ascended to the throne after his father but where his father's rule had been peaceful, Miranov's inflamed old rivalries and set the kings and nobles of the land against one another. Where his father's rule had been equitable and fair, Miranov's rule was capricious and cruel. Where his father had gained the respect of the people, Miranov ruled through fear. But the work of Ksheytrand would not be undone; the empire did not fall or fragment. Instead, the kings and nobles of the land convened a great council in Kazuria where they voted to be ruled by Orthanov, Ksheytrand's younger son.

Miranov appeared to accept their decision, believing that Orthanov would soon become as unpopular and untrusted as he, that the people might find themselves yearning for his return. But instead, Orthanov righted wrongs and settled feuds and soon became nearly as beloved as his father. Even to his hated older brother, he was generous, treating him as a trusted councillor and according him great respect and a place at the right hand of the throne.

But this respect and generosity merely inflamed Miranov's hatred of his brother. And so, after a time, he challenged his younger brother for all that he had gained, invoking his ancient right to a resolution by a single combat. Being bound by the ancient laws, Orthanov accepted and the two brothers fought in the Great Arena of Kazuria before thousands assembled to watch this duel.

While Miranov was not a good ruler, he was a great swordsman and he quickly dispatched his brother, who had refused a champion, in single combat. So impressed were the gods with Orthanov that upon his death they granted him a place among their number. But Miranov petitioned the gods for the same status, saying that he had won his brother's place amongst the gods in the trial by combat. The gods were divided on this matter, questioning the interpretation of the ancient law but finally they decided that Miranov and Orthanov would share a single place amongst their number, one sitting with the gods while the other continued to rule Kazuria.

And so it is that when the Emperor is fair and just, Miranov sits amongst the gods while Orthanov inhabits the emperor's mortal form and when the Emperor is tyrannical and corrupt, Orthanov sits amongst the gods while Miranov inhabits his mortal form.

THE EMPIRE OF KAZURIA

Kovaus is a city in the Empire of Kazuria, a theocracy ruled by the Emperor, a human possessed by two competing gods: Miranov and Orthanov. When the empire is prosperous and orderly, it is Orthanov who is ascendant. When the empire is tyrannical and corrupt, Miranov is ascendant. But for as long an anyone can remember, the two gods have been so evenly matched that the emperor has not ruled. He sits in his throne room in the City of Kazuria, locked in debate with himself. So it has been, emperor after emperor, for hundreds of years.

As a result, power has flowed away from the empire's dwindling army and into the hands of the great cities -- the imperial bureaucracy was long ago hired away by the city governors. For the most part, the vast realm is ruled by local dukes, barons and counts who abide in fortresses or cities. Between these local rulers' spheres of influence is a wilderness of abandoned farms, decaying roads, wild beasts and bandits.

At its height, Kazuria encompassed the entirety of the known world, bounded in the south by the First Wood, in the west by the Encircling Mountains and in the east and north by the Sea. As the empire fell into decline, the lands north of the Veld fell first, the empire retaining only the Fortress of Ford in the West and the City of Phage in the East. Today, only the delta of the Yorinz river is ruled by the imperial bureaucracy, encompassing only the 100 miles of river from Kazuria to Ikthol.

What little unity remains in the realm of Kazuria comes from the Magi -- a powerful guild based on the Island of Exetubin in Lake Iriktova. While there are only imperial bureaucrats left in Kazuria, Ikthol and Mithlond, there is a guild of the Magi in every large centre in the Empire. Like the Emperor, the Archmage is possessed by the spirit of the god Kedlund who forms the link between the magical otherworld and this one. It is said that if Kedlund withdraws from the world, magic will begin to flow out, never to return. It is for this reason that while the Magi have few friends, they have even fewer enemies.

 

[alsih2o]

anyone else, we have a lot of homebrewers here, someone else has to have some governmental info for us

 

[dave_o]

I always thought it'd be cool to put the characters in a communal democracy. Probably composed of Halflings, Gnomes, or even Elves. The rules of the communal would be so ingrained, the concept for individual property wouldn't exist. So, when the characters stroll up in their finest, people immediately begin making use of it.

"My, this metal will be glorious for the new statue!"

"So many elixirs for the apothecary! Truly, you are a bounty!"

This would be exceedingly cool with Elves playing the role of psuedo-Native Americans.

 

[Lalato]

We should start a project someday, just creating a single nation-state or empire in detail, one after the other. I think it might be neat, but that's just me, the Political Scientist.

Sounds like you should get involved with the government thread for the EN World City Project in Plots & Places.

--sam

 

[alsih2o]

Sounds like you should get involved with the government thread for the EN World City Project in Plots & Places.

--sam

i am up to my knees in rival potteries and guilds for crafts and trade, but i appreciate the invite