Big monster vs. Building: Need some help here. (KotSQ SPOILERS)

[Dr Midnight]

Again- my players had better not read this.

So, in my campaign, the PCs have recently angered a Great White Wyrm. They fled at the end of the night, back to their castle via teleportation.

What I want to know now is how would a white dragon (or any large creature) go about smashing a building apart? I'm aware of Hardness, etc... but are there optional rules anywhere for determining

-When a roof collapses
-How much damage falling debris can cause
-At what point will a building collapse inward

I know that a lot of this should be DM's call, but I'm dealing with players who like to challenge rulings and say "I don't see anything in the DMG about roofs collapsing after the walls around it take 80 points of damage", blah blah... They like to see things referenced. Plus I'll be destroying their shiny new keep.

Any help would be oh-so-faboo.

 

[MasterOfHeaven]

Three things... One, you probably should've kept this in the other thread. Two, I'd change the title if your players are prone to metagaming, since the heading alone is enough to tell them what the Dragon is planning. Three, I can't really help you with the mechanics of what you want to do.

Good luck with this attack, though. Hopefully you'll be able to grab a few PCs and take their magic items or something as well. Have fun.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Well, aren`t there rules for falling damage? Just apply the Damage of a Dragon falling onto the roof to determine if he is able to get through it. (He might need several tries, but who cares?).

Okay, probably nowhere is listet the Dragons Weight, but perhaps you can simply guess a good value..

 

[Dr Midnight]

This is an entirely different topic. This isn't about dragons, this is about a large creature and destruction of a building.

Only one player looks in this forum... and rarely.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Keep it simple. That's the DM's golden rule.

You have hardness, you have hit points-- use them. I would express the chance of a complete collapse as simply a percentage of the hit points.

If you're worried about a "lucky hit" collapsing something too soon, you might only start rolling once the structure has lost half its hit points, or you might only roll on a solid blow that does X amount of damage (50 or more?)

So, you can nickel and dime a structure all day (with a spoon, for example), and it's never going to collapse. But if it takes a solid, shattering blow it will have to roll for a complete collapse.


Wulf

 

[Dr Midnight]

How many hit points does a structure have? Is there a DMG page I could reference?

 

[MasterOfHeaven]

I just thought of something... have you considered using it's lift capacity to determine if it can rip walls up? IE Wall 1 weighs 2000 pounds, if he makes a Strength check he rips it out from it's supports and it's destroyed. It could work as an alternative to actually attacking the walls.

 

[Alejandro]

Hmm. I'd use the rule on Cave-Ins and Collapses (DMG p. 114) to determine when a roof would shatter. If you're feeling generous, you could scale up from the typical 2" stone floor to simulate a particularly sturdy roof. Once half the hit points are gone, the roof should be treated as "weakened".

Remember: a great white wyrm can carry a ten-ton iceberg and still fly (yes, over twenty-two thousand pounds). That's 1100d6 points of damage from at least 200' up.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

I would reference PH p. 136, table 8-15.

In the absense of more detailed rules, I would use the hardness and hit points given for a 5-foot section of wall.

You might want to let the dragon use the Break DC rules instead-- his strength may be high enough to hit a DC35 or even DC50.

I would also let his breath weapon directly affect the building. Ice is not friendly to stone-- trapped moisture will turn to ice and expand, cracking the stone apart. This is more of a concern with masonry stone than hewn stone-- but then I doubt the PC's fortress is hewn from a single block of virgin stone.

So-- with his claws, the dragon could reasonably affect only a single 5-foot section, which would have hardness 8 and maybe 90 hit points. He could punch a 5x5 hole in a wall-- and at that point is when I would check for collapse. A 5x5 hole that represents perhaps 10% of a building or wall = 10% chance of collapsing the adjacent/above/below sections. And then just sort of daisy chain it from there until it is either completely collapsed or it holds at some point.

If he has a Tail Sweep, I would let his tail crack multiple consecutive sections of wall with a single sweep.

If he breathes, he may very well affect the entire structure at once. This is the easiest and most direct way for him to destroy large sections at a time. (He might freeze entire sections first and then shatter the brittle stone...)

I'd have some kind of 3D representation of the map ready. God, what a blast I would have collapsing a building around the players...


Wulf

 

[Kestrel]

No rule help here, just a yell from the peanut gallery.

Remember kids! Never give the DM an opportunity to destroy your toys! (Toys like free castles won from playing cards