Wolfspider
Explorer
I would just play this completely by ear. Don't worry so much about numbers. Just create an interesting scene and have the players make plenty of Reflex saves. 
Big monster vs. Building: Need some help here. (KotSQ SPOILERS)
- Thread starter Dr Midnight
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Dr Midnight
Explorer
Wolfspider said:I would just play this completely by ear. Don't worry so much about numbers. Just create an interesting scene and have the players make plenty of Reflex saves.
I'm telling you, man, these players don't cope well with "by ear" if "by ear" means destroying something of theirs. They'll want rules, they'll want rolls, they'll want everything. I could play it by ear, but it's not worth it for the crap I'll have to hear about it not being "by the rules". I'm getting so many snide little remarks about allowing the freakin' dragon a will save against harm. JUST the dragon, mind you.
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Wolfspider
Explorer
Well, if the players are going to be THAT way, I'd make sure that they run into a cadre of evil priests prepared out the whazzoo with Harm spells and see if that like the feeling of being reduced to a handful of hit points in one fell swoop.
In fact, I think I've just come up with an idea for some minions you should have the dragon use...
Seriously, you need to put the smack down on this attitude your players have about the rules. I understand their desire to make sure things are fair, but sheesh.
Why don't you just have the dragon, using divination magic, find out where the structural weaknesses of the castle are, and destroy them using disintegration? Then you can have the castle fall down around them in a neat little pile of utter devastation.
In fact, you could avoid the whole encounter with the dragon this way. Just have them wake up with everything coming down around them. Sounds like the start of a millenium-long grudge to me....
In fact, I think I've just come up with an idea for some minions you should have the dragon use...
Seriously, you need to put the smack down on this attitude your players have about the rules. I understand their desire to make sure things are fair, but sheesh.
Why don't you just have the dragon, using divination magic, find out where the structural weaknesses of the castle are, and destroy them using disintegration? Then you can have the castle fall down around them in a neat little pile of utter devastation.
In fact, you could avoid the whole encounter with the dragon this way. Just have them wake up with everything coming down around them. Sounds like the start of a millenium-long grudge to me....
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Wulf Ratbane
Adventurer
The inmates are running the asylum. Sounds like it's time to remind them who's in charge.
Open rolls, no mercy-- and strictly by the rules.
Wulf
Open rolls, no mercy-- and strictly by the rules.
Wulf
I wouldn't have changed Harm at all, simply because there are ways around that spell.
Though I did provide the rules on dropping a ten-ton block of ice, I think it's a bit overkill. Perhaps you can metagame for a bit and retcon your Harm decision if your players will take back their decision to assault the dragon?
Just a thought. Because, by the rules, it is possible to nuke them from orbit.
Though I did provide the rules on dropping a ten-ton block of ice, I think it's a bit overkill. Perhaps you can metagame for a bit and retcon your Harm decision if your players will take back their decision to assault the dragon?
Just a thought. Because, by the rules, it is possible to nuke them from orbit.
Do you mean that only the dragon gets a save against Harm, that everything else doesn't? That might be viewed as having a 'DM's pet' monster, making special exemptions for it so it can't get killed.
White dragons have a burrow speed, and not a slow one either. At 5ft/second and fairly wide tunnel, he should be able to undermine the foundations in fairly short order.
If it knows Disintegrate is can destroy 5 10' cubes instantaneously - structural supports are going to vanish pretty quickly.
Don't forget Control Weather - a tornado ought to do some damage.
I don't think the dragon should be repeatedly battering itself against the tower and giving the party plenty of time to attack it. It should bring the whole thing down at once after a bit of preparation.
White dragons have a burrow speed, and not a slow one either. At 5ft/second and fairly wide tunnel, he should be able to undermine the foundations in fairly short order.
If it knows Disintegrate is can destroy 5 10' cubes instantaneously - structural supports are going to vanish pretty quickly.
Don't forget Control Weather - a tornado ought to do some damage.
I don't think the dragon should be repeatedly battering itself against the tower and giving the party plenty of time to attack it. It should bring the whole thing down at once after a bit of preparation.
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