D&D 5E Binder Class Interest Check?

[Eltab]

The vestige of Apollo (Greek god) grants one creature, chosen by the Binder, a bonus to archery weapons, which become magical and gain a +1more bonus to to-hit and damage rolls. Arrows may be imbued with one of three powers - doubled, accurate, or exploding - which the archer can pick each turn. The archer can "ignore the Loading property" (as the Crossbow feat) so he can rapid fire while under the vestige's influence.

Out of combat, the vestige of Apollo grants the target creature proficiency with the Medicine skill.

Is this something like what you had in mind?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

A modal invocation system would probably work well for a Binder class. Something that lets you swap between "active" soul binds, and eventually gain the ability to have more than one "active" soul bind at certain levels (11th, etc). You can even use small invocation trees, like:

Vestige of the Shadow King
Prerequisite: Binder Level 5.
As an action, you call upon the vestige of Larloch, the Shadow King and remove the benefits of any other vestige. While this vestige is active, you gain advantage on all Charisma (Deception) checks. Additionally, whenever you hit with the Ray of Frost or Chill Touch cantrips, the target understands they have been damaged, but cannot determine you are the source of it.

Whispers of the Shadow King
Prerequisite: Vestige of the Shadow King
While Vestige of the Shadow King is active, casting the Suggestion spell does not require verbal or material components. You may cast the Suggestion spell once per short rest without expending a Binder spell slot.

The vestige of Apollo (Greek god) grants one creature, chosen by the Binder, a bonus to archery weapons, which become magical and gain a +1more bonus to to-hit and damage rolls. Arrows may be imbued with one of three powers - doubled, accurate, or exploding - which the archer can pick each turn. The archer can "ignore the Loading property" (as the Crossbow feat) so he can rapid fire while under the vestige's influence.

Out of combat, the vestige of Apollo grants the target creature proficiency with the Medicine skill.

Is this something like what you had in mind?

This is why I come here.

These are awesome ideas, folks.

one thing I’m blanking on is subclass names, and what to call the subclass (ie vestige is taken, what do you call what method of binding you choose?)

What do you call the binder who lets a being possess them?

What do you call the binder who has a single constantly-bound guardian?

Horde Caller works for the horde binder, but the rest I’m blank on.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I think the spirit based zone creator is a Shaman, calling spirits who create zones of buff or debuff effects, and whom the shaman can cast spells through.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

.

The vestige of Apollo (Greek god) grants one creature, chosen by the Binder, a bonus to archery weapons, which become magical and gain a +1more bonus to to-hit and damage rolls. Arrows may be imbued with one of three powers - doubled, accurate, or exploding - which the archer can pick each turn. The archer can "ignore the Loading property" (as the Crossbow feat) so he can rapid fire while under the vestige's influence.

Out of combat, the vestige of Apollo grants the target creature proficiency with the Medicine skill.

Is this something like what you had in mind?

I like that, yeah. Basically like a 4e daily power, but with more freedom of design.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

• d6 hit die
• constitution spellcasting ability score

So, scrawny nerd who nevertheless has a primary focus in constitution. I can see how it might make balance sense or what have you, but for me it is a thematic clash.

And really I just don't like this being a constitution caster (or necessarily really the idea of constitution casting). I know 5e has too much Charisma casting already, but if there was ever going to be a Charisma caster the guy who achieves everything by manipulating coercing supernatural entities would be it.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

So, scrawny nerd who nevertheless has a primary focus in constitution. I can see how it might make balance sense or what have you, but for me it is a thematic clash.

And really I just don't like this being a constitution caster (or necessarily really the idea of constitution casting). I know 5e has too much Charisma casting already, but if there was ever going to be a Charisma caster the guy who achieves everything by manipulating coercing supernatural entities would be it.

I don’t think this can possibly be a charisma caster. That’s the warlock. The Binder binds, it doesn’t convince.

And the Con casting comes from the idea that the Binder survives its magic, binds power it shouldn’t be able to control to its own body to master it, etc.

I’d accept an Int caster, but not Charisma. And I see no reason to not make their magic such a physical thing that they use their own vitality to power their magic.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

scrawny nerd

Also, says who?

 

[Benjamin Olson]

Also, says who?

Whoever gave him a d6 hit die.

don’t think this can possibly be a charisma caster. That’s the warlock. The Binder binds, it doesn’t convince.

See, we're at odds there as well. A warlock doesn't "convince" either and should be an intelligence caster, because if his power comes from anything within himself it is the dark knowledge he has mastered with the help of his patron.

 

[Marandahir]

Eh, I always saw the 3.5e/4e/4Essentials Warlock/Hexblade/Binder (CA/CW/ToM - PH1/HotFK/HoS/HotFW) as being the design impetus for 5e Warlocks getting a secondary build choice a la Fighting Styles - Pact of the Blade was an attempt at Hexblade, Pact of the Tome was more the Binder, and Pact of the Chains was more the Core Warlock (though I could see Chains/Tome being flipped for some 4e Warlock > 5e Warlock etc build translations).

I'm not sure we need a separate class for Binder; I'd prefer "The Vestige" as a Warlock patron and give the subclass more 3.5e Tome of Magic Binder-like qualities a la the Hexblade patron does above and beyond for Bladelocks.

That said, have fun with the design. I go back and forth with my own design on whether I feel like the 4e>5e Shaman should be a full separate class that casts like a Warlock but uses Wisdom, or if it should just be "The Primal Spirit" patron for Warlocks…

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Eh, I always saw the 3.5e/4e/4Essentials Warlock/Hexblade/Binder (CA/CW/ToM - PH1/HotFK/HoS/HotFW) as being the design impetus for 5e Warlocks getting a secondary build choice a la Fighting Styles - Pact of the Blade was an attempt at Hexblade, Pact of the Tome was more the Binder, and Pact of the Chains was more the Core Warlock (though I could see Chains/Tome being flipped for some 4e Warlock > 5e Warlock etc build translations).

I'm not sure we need a separate class for Binder; I'd prefer "The Vestige" as a Warlock patron and give the subclass more 3.5e Tome of Magic Binder-like qualities a la the Hexblade patron does above and beyond for Bladelocks.

That said, have fun with the design. I go back and forth with my own design on whether I feel like the 4e>5e Shaman should be a full separate class that casts like a Warlock but uses Wisdom, or if it should just be "The Primal Spirit" patron for Warlocks…

I figure the Hexblade should have been a warlock-themed subclass of a full gish class, so we are quite at odds on this one!

But yeah I feel the same way about the Shaman. I’d love for it to be a full wisdom based caster class, but also for it to be a warlock patron...

Whoever gave him a d6 hit die.

Well, no. That, combined with a Con main stat and prof con saves, means they have middling HP and resistance to con-targeting effects, and speaks to a conflict. Only very hearty/tough people can be powerful Binders, perhaps exactly because the magic is bad for the health.

See, we're at odds there as well. A warlock doesn't "convince" either and should be an intelligence caster, because if his power comes from anything within himself it is the dark knowledge he has mastered with the help of his patron.

Eh, the warlock makes deals. I’d be happy with an Int warlock too, but that isn’t what we got, so, the warlocks magic is based on their force of personality, charm, and social wits. We know that, because it’s based on Charisma.