Biomechanics of Flight aka Can Dragons Fly?!

Roman

First Post
Up until very recently, I have thought that the largest flying creatures on Earth don't exceed a mass of around 10kg (~18lb). Albatrosses apparently have a mass somewhere in that ballpark. I knew about the prehistoric flying reptiles called Pterosaurs and their huge wing spans, but I always recalled some, as it turns out erroneous, information that although heavier than Albatrosses, the Pterosaurs too were not as heavy as humans and might range from say 20-40kg (36-72lb). This seemed to be the biomechanical limit on the weight of flying creatures.

Apparently, however, Pterosaurs were much heavier than that. The article I link states that Quetzalcoatlus could have weighted between 250lb and 550lb and had a wingspan of 36 feet! This is obviously much heavier, not to mention larger, than the average human. Going by mass, this would indicate that a category "Large" creature might be able to fly. Going by size (wingspan), it would indicate that category "Gargantuan" creature might be able to fly.

I remember some that the High Level Campaigns book in back in 2E AD&D stated that on a non-magical world creatures larger than a certain size cannot fly. I don't have the book in front of me, but I think the size category in question was "Small" or in that ballpark. Sometimes reality is more amazing than fantasy!

So, what does this say about Dragons? Well, 3.5E D&D Draconomicon does provide their sizes and masses and these are much, much larger than those of the Pterosaurs. That means we are most likely back to ' it's fantasy' or 'it's magic' as an explanation for dragon-flight, but the biomechanics of realistic flight of massive creatures is still something that is interesting to think about! And although the dragons may be too big, the range of fantasy creatures that could 'realistically' fly without magic or suspension of disbelief has just grown much bigger!

Scientific American Magazine - May 14, 2009

How Giant Pterosaurs Took Flight
Biomechanics suggests that a giraffe-size pterosaur could have jumped from all fours to get off the ground
By Stuart Fox

For almost a century, scientists struggled to explain how the extinct reptiles called pterosaurs managed to get off the ground. In regard to the smaller pterosaurs, bird models sufficed; flapping from standstill or a running start could work. But for the larger pterosaurs, some of which had a 26-foot wingspan and weighed 200 pounds, scientists could not find a bird model that explained takeoff.

That is because they did not take off like birds, thinks Michael Habib, who studies functional anatomy and evolution at Johns Hopkins University. After analyzing the biomechanics of the creatures, Habib proposes that pterosaurs took flight by using all four limbs to make a standing jump into the sky, not by running on their two hind limbs or jumping off a height, as more widely assumed.

“I started as a bird researcher,” Habib says. “I became interested in mechanical limits in flying animals, and that naturally leads to pterosaurs.”

And pterosaurs such as Quetzalcoatlus sit firmly on the far end of those limits. Even with its birdlike hollow bones, Quetzalcoatlus weighed between 250 and 550 pounds and had about a 36-foot wingspan. By comparison, an albatross weighs about 18 pounds and has an 11-foot wingspan. It had to take off somehow, but no one had a good guess how.

By analyzing the shape of the pterosaur arm bones, Habib calculated that the forelimbs could withstand stresses far greater than those encountered during flight. But why evolve reinforced wings if they would never experience high stress? Habib then made the connection between the quadrupedal gait of the large pterosaurs and the jumping quadrupedal takeoff he had seen in vampire bats. If the large pterosaurs used all four limbs to get off the ground, that would explain both the superstrong forelimbs and solve the mystery of pterosaur takeoff.

But just because an animal could do something does not mean it did, and some paleontologists remain unconvinced that Habib’s data actually explain how pterosaurs got off the ground. “When I read the manuscript, my first reaction was, ‘Hmm, that’s odd.’ But if you work on pterosaurs, you get used to odd things anyway,” remarks David Unwin, a paleontologist at the University of Leicester in England and author of the book The Pterosaurs: From Deep Time. “Large and giant pterosaurs pose a problem,” he explains, “because the flying speed they need to achieve is quite high, 30 or 40 miles per hour, and I have a hard time understanding how they get that fast from a standing jump.”

Paleontologist Kevin Padian of the University of California, Berkeley, also questions some of Habib’s conclusions. Padian says he believes the smaller pterosaurs (some were the size of sparrows) were bipedal and thus took off with two legs, not four. He also does not think Habib has covered every kind of relevant bone stress.

The divide between the pterosaur researcher and the researcher looking at ptero:)saurs is fairly common in this area of paleontology. According to both Unwin and Habib, pterosaurs, with their improbable size and ability to fly, draw in biomechanics experts more focused on physics than prehistoric biology. “Because of the bizarre nature of pterosaurs, they’ve attracted attention from outside paleontology,” Unwin says. “So we’ve had a disproportionate number of people come in from outside paleontology, lots of people ready to have a go at the aerodynamics who are not pterosaur researchers first.”

Still, all agree that Habib brings up interesting points, and they are not just for biomechanics. Showing that the large pterosaurs could take off without having to jump off a cliff expands the range of places they could have lived, raising all kinds of questions about the ecology of large pterosaurs. Says Padian: “Every time we think we’ve figured them out, they throw us another curve.”

This story was originally published with the title "Leapin' Lizards"

From Scientific American: How Giant Pterosaurs Took Flight: Scientific American
 

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tomBitonti

Adventurer
Hi,

A friend of mine considered that question, way back in school. What I remember is that they could -- if you could use advanced materials and metals to build them -- because of strength of materials physics and the energy needed to keep one aloft. The use of metals, unfortunately, evidently causes a huge problem for biological systems.

Thx!
 

Roman

First Post
Hi,

A friend of mine considered that question, way back in school. What I remember is that they could -- if you could use advanced materials and metals to build them -- because of strength of materials physics and the energy needed to keep one aloft. The use of metals, unfortunately, evidently causes a huge problem for biological systems.

Thx!

Well, sure, I mean airplanes can fly and some of them have a mass in excess of 150 metric tonnes. We are talking about biological systems and biomechanical limits of flight, which are likely to differ substantially from actual physical limits of flight of machines.
 

nightwyrm

First Post
So, very simplistically, the more mass an object has, the greater amount of lift is required for the object to fly. Lift is usually generated by wings and is essentially a function of the surface area of the object and its speed.

Generally, if an object scales according to geometric similarity (ie. the object doesn't change its shape as it gets bigger), the mass of an object grows as the cube of its length while the surface area grows as the square of its length. That's why a larger flying creature must have a larger set of wings in relation to its body than a smaller flying creature.

Of course, it's not as simple as simply increasing the wing size for a larger flying creature. The wings also have their own mass, and there is also the matter of the strength of the material making up the wings to consider. A large wing that collapses under its own weight is useless.

This is why a pterosaur is shaped very much like a large kite. Its main body is rather flat with flaps of skins between its limps to add to surface area and the wings makes up a huge proportion of its body. Also, I think the more recent hypothesis about the pterosaurs are that they live near coastal cliffs where they can either jump off or rely on the strong ocean gusts to get enough momentum to get airborne. Once airborne, pterosaurs and other large birds are essentially gliders.

A dragon with its large central body mass and relatively small wings can never fly in the real world. And the idea that they can get airborne from a stationary position by flapping its wings like a small bird is completely ridiculous.


For the tl:dr crowd: Flying is not a simple matter of size and weight. The ability to fly depends heavily on the object's shape. A modern plane can fly because the surface area of its wings are relatively large compared to the rest of its body and it can propell itself continuously at high speeds. A dragon can never fly because of its traditional "lizard with wings" shape.
 
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Huw

First Post
I worked on this problem in a low magic campaign I ran a few years back. I decided that dragons had evolved from sharks, and flew directly from the sea. This gave them an evolutionary head start over all other vertebrate fliers.

Why sharks? I used a bit of dodgy science (biologists, look away now) and I decided that the cartilage had become a natural kevlar, and this would give them large, stiff wings. I also decided that the dragons managed to synthesise kerosene instead of sugar, giving them power (and fire), and that their gills evolved into highly efficient respirators specifically for powering the wing muscles. This allows them to develop, large, strong wings which they could vibrate very fast. In short, they fly not like birds, bats or pterosaurs, but like half-tonne insects.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
I've never really thought about it. Maybe a dragon's bones are made of hollowed "dragonbone" (a material unknown in the real world) and filled with helium. Who knows?
 

Choronzon

First Post
The discovery channel had a show years back called Dragons: Myth Made Real in which they discuss this. They solved it with honeycombed bones that were light but durable and an inflatable bladder that they can fill with hydrogen that was produced by a special bacteria in their stomachs.

They also claimed the hydrogen was how they breathed fire. The dragons would chew rocks that were rich in platinum, which would stay in their teeth. They would blow out the hydrogen, which would react with the platinum somehow and light.

It was a pretty interesting show.
 

Plane Sailing

Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
I've always like the explanation Terry Pratchett gives in "Guards Guards" for how the noble dragons are able to fly and do other dragonish stuff :)
 

Andor

First Post
It's worth noting also that at the time pterosaurs were alive and flappin' the atmosphere was notably thicker and more oxygen rich.

D&D contains many biological impossibilities. Dragons who fly, burrow through solid rock, and spit lightning are just one of them. 20' tall humanoids are another. All the large fliers like Griffons, Hippogriffs and Pegasi all share the dragons aerodynamic difficulties. Regenerating trolls, head sprouting hydra, shambling plants and living balls of rock and fire.

I use the same explaniation for all of them. A) Different physics and B) Magic. ;)
 


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