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Black Widow

pukunui

Legend
Anyone seen Black Widow yet? I'm thinking of taking the girls to see it tomorrow. Will let you know what I think.

According to a local reviewer, it's one of the best MCU films yet and contains nods to James Bond and other spy movies, all of which is promising!
 

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Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
I'm not going to a theater in the near future.

I am, however, hopeful that it'll be good. I expect it'll read as less superhero, and more like any other normal human action movie, but that's okay.
 

Stalker0

Legend
I saw it tonight in IMAX.

my quick and dirty…a very average marvel movie.

action is…fine
Plot is…fine
Villain is…forgettable (aka fine for marvel movies).

the character interaction is the best part, especially with nat and her sister. But it’s not “amazing”, just good.

At the same time nothing rubbed me the wrong way, no plot point made me roll my eyes, no one did anything notably out of character, so I have no real complaints either.

so yeah…just solidly average
 


Sabathius42

Bree-Yark
I saw it tonight in IMAX.

my quick and dirty…a very average marvel movie.

action is…fine
Plot is…fine
Villain is…forgettable (aka fine for marvel movies).

the character interaction is the best part, especially with nat and her sister. But it’s not “amazing”, just good.

At the same time nothing rubbed me the wrong way, no plot point made me roll my eyes, no one did anything notably out of character, so I have no real complaints either.

so yeah…just solidly average
I'd love to see an alternate universe MCU where a prime directive was to channel as much effort into the villains being interesting as the heros.

So forgettable....in so many films.
 

I'd love to see an alternate universe MCU where a prime directive was to channel as much effort into the villains being interesting as the heros.

So forgettable....in so many films.
If you spend more time with the villains, then you spend less time with the heroes. It's a trade off, and Marvel is about heroes.
 



Sabathius42

Bree-Yark
If you spend more time with the villains, then you spend less time with the heroes. It's a trade off, and Marvel is about heroes.
The ratio seems off when many fans can't even name the main villain from 10+ of the movies.

Spiderman and X-Men villains get a lot of traction but then you have....alien bad guy from Avengers, alien bad guy from GotG, and alien bad guy from Thor....all of which I think are different from alien bad guys hanging around with Thanos?
 

The ratio seems off when many fans can't even name the main villain from 10+ of the movies.

Spiderman and X-Men villains get a lot of traction but then you have....alien bad guy from Avengers, alien bad guy from GotG, and alien bad guy from Thor....all of which I think are different from alien bad guys hanging around with Thanos?
The MCU movies have been more successful than the X-Men and Spiderman movies. The role of the villain in the MCU is to be punched by the hero.

You probably want to look at Batman movies if you want superhero movies about villains (and where the hero is a shadowy cypher).
 

Sabathius42

Bree-Yark
The MCU movies have been more successful than the X-Men and Spiderman movies. The role of the villain in the MCU is to be punched by the hero.

You probably want to look at Batman movies if you want superhero movies about villains (and where the hero is a shadowy cypher).
Are there not 2 MCU Spiderman films? I haven't even seen the second one and I know the villain is Mysterio...because Mysterio is a recognizable villain with a schtick.

I have seen Avengers all the way through multiple times and bits and pieces a million times and couldn't tell you what the bad guys names were.

You don't have to make your movie about the villain to have a good villain. Killmonger was a good villain...plenty of screentime, an understandable goal, and interesting character interaction with the hero. Same with Loki, or Ultron, or even Ghost. For each one of these, though, you have 3 "guy in pale makeup who wants to kill everyone because he is mad" villains nobody remembers.
 


Are there not 2 MCU Spiderman films? I haven't even seen the second one and I know the villain is Mysterio...because Mysterio is a recognizable villain with a schtick.
Whist part of the MCU, they where actually made by Sony. And I have seen both of them - Mysterio is rubbish. The first one spends more time with the villain, resulting in a movie that feels a lot less epic than your typical MCU stuff. It's fine, but it feels more like a TV high school comedy-drama.
Killmonger was a good villain...plenty of screentime, an understandable goal, and interesting character interaction with the hero.
But we spend less time with the heroes, leaving them underdeveloped. And secondary villain Ulysses Klaw is so underdeveloped that I bet you forgot about him.
Same with Loki, or Ultron, or even Ghost.
Ultron and Ghost are garbage villains. Ultron has no justification for his actions and Ghost? We never learn what kind of person she is beyond an angry sulky adolescent. Loki starts out in the hero's gang, so you can spend time with him at the same time as spending time with the hero. But you can't have every villain be a traitorous member of the hero's team.
 
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Sabathius42

Bree-Yark
Whist part of the MCU, they where actually made by Sony. And I have seen both of them - Mysterio is rubbish. The first one spends more time with the villain, resulting in a movie that feels a lot less epic than your typical MCU stuff. It's fine, but it feels more like a TV high school comedy-drama.

But we spend less time with the heroes, leaving them underdeveloped. And secondary villain Ulysses Klaw is so underdeveloped that I bet you forgot about him.

Ultron and Ghost are garbage villains. Ultron has no justification for his actions and Ghost? We never learn what kind of person she is beyond an angry sulky adolescent. Loki starts out in the hero's gang, so you can spend time with him at the same time as spending time with the hero. But you can't have every villain be a traitorous member of the hero's team.
We shall be united by out completely differing opinions on filmmaking.
 

Ryujin

Hero
I'm not going to a theater in the near future.

I am, however, hopeful that it'll be good. I expect it'll read as less superhero, and more like any other normal human action movie, but that's okay.
I get the impression that it'll be more in the style of "The Winter Soldier", which works for me.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
The MCU movies have been more successful than the X-Men and Spiderman movies.

I suppose that depends on what you call "successful". What's your metric? Worldwide Box Office Gross?
(Numbers from Box Office Mojo, in millions)

Avengers: $1519
Age of Ultron: $1402
Black Panther: $1347
Iron Man 3: $1214
Captain America: Civil War: $1153
Spider-Man: Far From Home: $1132
Captain Marvel: $1128
Spider-Man: Homecoming: $880
GotG vol 2: $863
Thor: Ragnarok: $853
Guardians of the Galaxy: $773
Doctor Strange: $678
Iron Man 2: $624
Ant Man & The Wasp: $622
Ant Man: $519
Captain America: TFA: $370

Spider-Man looks solidly in the middle of the pack. Prior Spider-Men may have been lackluster, but once Marvel's hands were guiding them, they've done well.
 

Marc_C

Solitary Role Playing
Saw it on Disney+. Enjoyed it. Its main claim to fame is that it is a 98% all female cast superhero movie.
 

Stalker0

Legend
The MCU movies have been more successful than the X-Men and Spiderman movies. The role of the villain in the MCU is to be punched by the hero.
On the other hand black panther was widely praised for its good villain, and considered a core reason the movie is one of the best of the MCU to date. Loki and Thanos are both very well done in their villainous roles.
 


Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
On the other hand black panther was widely praised for its good villain, and considered a core reason the movie is one of the best of the MCU to date. Loki and Thanos are both very well done in their villainous roles.

Loki is well done. Thanos is less so.

Thanos' plan doesn't hold up to 30 seconds of scrutiny. Which is fine, if you make it clear he really is the "Mad Titan". But they don't do that.
 

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