Black Widow

MarkB

Legend
Just saw it and I really liked it. Of course it was much lower powered than what we've become use to in the MCU but it fit as a Spy movie. I'd rate it better than the Ironman movies and better than Age of Ultron.
Talking about spy movies I thought the villain here worked well for a spy movie, the scheme was very Bond-like and suitably vile.

Yelena (Florence Pugh) was the best character and the movie really was a hand over to the new 'Black Widow". The relationship between the sisters was great and I would have focussed on that more (and dropped the parents). It might have worked better as a series rather than a movie.
I agree that Task Master was criminally underused, the photographic reflexes werent really explored and we didnt get a cool mirror fight, in fact there werent any very good fights in the whole movie.

the best part of the movie though was OT Fagbenle, I cant wait to see him back again in Thunderbolts or Dark Avengers :)
To be fair, we did get a very good mirror fight, it just didn't feature Taskmaster. The fight between Natasha and Yelena in Budapest was very well done.
 

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I thought it was very fun, and the main draw was the family dynamic and everyone kind of tearing each other down with jokes but with a nugget of love deep down. We had two great action sequences (the car chase in Budapest and the helicopter rescue), and while sure, Taskmaster didn't knock it out of the park, they didn't kill that villain off, so they can always try again later.

Ideally this would have been filmed years ago and released a few months after Winter Soldier. Then Black Widow 2 could have come out at some point, with an adventure involving Nat, Steve, and Sam on the run. And then we could have released the 2021 Black Widow 3 that takes place during the blip. The first one can be this action movie with some spy stuff, the second one could be a big espionage thriller, and the third could, I dunno, involve holding society together after the blip, and stopping some fascist from taking over in the chaos.
 

Stalker0

Legend
In the rapid image montage of her training I saw a close up of an injection with a liquid that could be super serum.
It’s too subtle too late.

If they were going to make it canon, this was the movie to do it with. We got lots of info on Nats backstory, yet not a peep about serum.

In FWS, they made it clear as day that they were working with super soldier serum.

in fact we actually got additional notes on Nats mortal nature (the other avengers don’t need Ibprofen after a fight).

if this was much earlier in black widows tenure, I could see that hint and think “perhaps a tidbit of things to come”. But as the swan song movie…nope, Nat is just human…plain and simple
 



Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow
I thought it was very fun, and the main draw was the family dynamic and everyone kind of tearing each other down with jokes but with a nugget of love deep down. We had two great action sequences (the car chase in Budapest and the helicopter rescue), and while sure, Taskmaster didn't knock it out of the park, they didn't kill that villain off, so they can always try again later.

Ideally this would have been filmed years ago and released a few months after Winter Soldier. Then Black Widow 2 could have come out at some point, with an adventure involving Nat, Steve, and Sam on the run. And then we could have released the 2021 Black Widow 3 that takes place during the blip. The first one can be this action movie with some spy stuff, the second one could be a big espionage thriller, and the third could, I dunno, involve holding society together after the blip, and stopping some fascist from taking over in the chaos.
That would have been a brilliant and really does highlight the concerns that female superhero characters and Black Widow in particular were not valued in development of the MCU. At least moving forward they have a chance to give Yelena some respect, especially with Taskmaster, Val and Sharon Carter and the free Widows providing back up - Kate Bishop too if Yelena shows up in the Hawkeye series
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Loki is well done. Thanos is less so.

Thanos' plan doesn't hold up to 30 seconds of scrutiny. Which is fine, if you make it clear he really is the "Mad Titan". But they don't do that.
Yeah someone on the team must actually think Thanos plan makes sense, because the film plays it as something that would work, but at an unacceptable cost.
 

DrunkonDuty

he/him
I enjoyed it. One of the better MCU movies. I enjoyed the family dynamics. And yeah, Yelena stole the show.

As to Nat surviving all sorts of damage - yeah, she showed super human levels of endurance when she canonically is not supposed to. The bit where she survives a fall without any significant harm while another widow is incapacitated highlighted this. But this is nothing new for action movies and I'm happy to take in stride as a genre convention. Would I have preferred a bit more grit? Sure. But there's a limit to what Disney allows to be shown in MCU movies in any case.
 

billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him)
Superheroes, no matter what their powers are, all have a certain amount of superhuman resilience in both the movies and the comics. Hell, just about all action movie characters do, even in the non-superheroic genres. And in the comics, the Black Widow does have some degree of super-soldier serum enhancement on top of action genre resilience.

That said, as long as there's some semblance of a nod toward how Natasha could survive a fall that incapacitated another Red Room trained Widow - I'm content. And while the incapacitated Widow seemed to fall straight down off the toppling chimney, Natasha bounced off a number of things on the way down. It's not enough for reality, but it generally is enough for superhero genre reality and the suspension of disbelief.
 


Her superpower is that she has turned off falling damage.

Slow Fall​

Beginning at 4th level, you can use your reaction when you fall to reduce any falling damage you take by an amount equal to five times your monk level.
And explosion damage and car crash damage.

Evasion​

At 7th level, your instinctive agility lets you dodge out of the way of certain area effects, such as a blue dragon’s lightning breath or a fireball spell. When you are subjected to an effect that allows you to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage, you instead take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, and only half damage if you fail.
 

Stalker0

Legend
That said, as long as there's some semblance of a nod toward how Natasha could survive a fall that incapacitated another Red Room trained Widow - I'm content. And while the incapacitated Widow seemed to fall straight down off the toppling chimney, Natasha bounced off a number of things on the way down. It's not enough for reality, but it generally is enough for superhero genre reality and the suspension of disbelief.
I think my issue (which is really more of a nitpick) is that they really emphasize how brutal the landings are with sound work.

in that early scene, nat lands HARD, the sound makes it sounds VISCERAL. Normally in those types of scenes it’s a bit of “bang bang clang” and we move on.

it was the audio equivalent is hearing dishes falling and breaking next door, but then going over and seeing everything is fine. The audio set my expectation that nat suffered a truly brutal fall, but then the scene went back on that.
 

MarkB

Legend
Well, she was the fake-daughter of a Russian supersoldier and an unethical neuroscientist, and was put through a training regime designed to push people beyond human limits, so you gotta wonder if she got a little something extra somewhere along the way. There's a lot of open ground in between "baseline human" and "serum-enhanced supersoldier".
 

DrunkonDuty

he/him
I think my issue (which is really more of a nitpick) is that they really emphasize how brutal the landings are with sound work.

in that early scene, nat lands HARD, the sound makes it sounds VISCERAL. Normally in those types of scenes it’s a bit of “bang bang clang” and we move on.

it was the audio equivalent is hearing dishes falling and breaking next door, but then going over and seeing everything is fine. The audio set my expectation that nat suffered a truly brutal fall, but then the scene went back on that.

Agreed. Back when I was an editor I would have picked this nit hard with the director. And then the sound people. Because the sound mixer is the one who wanted to do it this way and would have argued for the visceral thunks. Bloody sound people.
 

CapnZapp

Legend
Perhaps the early reviews set my expectations too high.

There were'nt enough focus on Natasha and Scarlett.

The whole "Taskmaster can mirror your fighting style" was entirely wasted. I expected a focused battle where Natasha initially found it easy, but where Taskmaster learnt at a frightening pace. Increasingly frustrated Natasha tried her every trick with Taskmaster blocking that too, but that when things looked really desperate, Natasha's ingenuity sparked a moment of genius (exactly what I leave to the film makers) that the Taskmaster didn't see coming.

Instead we got a few feeble "I'm posing as this or that Avenger" which makes zero sense. When did the Taskmaster fight those heroes? Or is it enough for her to study news footage? Wut? Besides, why are we meant to care? If Natasha and Yelena fled the Taskmaster in the safe house chase scene specifically because "it's invincible" I missed that part. Fleeing the bad guys at first is a staple and I didn't look for more motivation than "they were swarmed by Widows led by a super-Widow".

The only satisfying (non-plasticy weightless CGI filler) fight was weirdly enough when Scarlett fought Florence.

Other than that, yes, I liked the family scenes (both with the young and adult girls). Talk about reviewers grasping for straws though. Maybe for a MCU movie it was a lot, but I felt it was a bare minimum.

Of course the director trolled us guys when she said she put in a "Natasha changing clothes" scene "because she finds Scarlett sexy". (She was battered black and blue in that scene and there was nothing even remotely sexy about it even if she hadn't been.)

I agree with those people that say it is a letdown to have your only solo movie function as the vehicle where you hand over the baton. I'm not complaining about Pugh. But Scarlett deserved a movie that was all about Natasha, and surprise: Marvel could not pull it off even when they tried.

Grade: B-

What a monumental waste of Scarlett Johansson over the past, what, 12 years?
 

MarkB

Legend
Perhaps the early reviews set my expectations too high.

There were'nt enough focus on Natasha and Scarlett.

The whole "Taskmaster can mirror your fighting style" was entirely wasted. I expected a focused battle where Natasha initially found it easy, but where Taskmaster learnt at a frightening pace. Increasingly frustrated Natasha tried her every trick with Taskmaster blocking that too, but that when things looked really desperate, Natasha's ingenuity sparked a moment of genius (exactly what I leave to the film makers) that the Taskmaster didn't see coming.

Instead we got a few feeble "I'm posing as this or that Avenger" which makes zero sense. When did the Taskmaster fight those heroes? Or is it enough for her to study news footage? Wut? Besides, why are we meant to care? If Natasha and Yelena fled the Taskmaster in the safe house chase scene specifically because "it's invincible" I missed that part. Fleeing the bad guys at first is a staple and I didn't look for more motivation than "they were swarmed by Widows led by a super-Widow".

The only satisfying (non-plasticy weightless CGI filler) fight was weirdly enough when Scarlett fought Florence.

Other than that, yes, I liked the family scenes (both with the young and adult girls). Talk about reviewers grasping for straws though. Maybe for a MCU movie it was a lot, but I felt it was a bare minimum.

Of course the director trolled us guys when she said she put in a "Natasha changing clothes" scene "because she finds Scarlett sexy". (She was battered black and blue in that scene and there was nothing even remotely sexy about it even if she hadn't been.)

I agree with those people that say it is a letdown to have your only solo movie function as the vehicle where you hand over the baton. I'm not complaining about Pugh. But Scarlett deserved a movie that was all about Natasha, and surprise: Marvel could not pull it off even when they tried.

Grade: B-

What a monumental waste of Scarlett Johansson over the past, what, 12 years?
It is truly ridiculous that we didn't get either a Black Widow or a Black Widow and Hawkeye movie sometime around 5+ years ago.
 


embee

Lawyer by day. Rules lawyer by night.
I tried watching it last night. Came across as an hour and a half of Designated Girl Fights. Pretty formulaic. I wasn't overly engaged with it and turned it off about halfway through.

From what I could gather, Taskmaster is kind of like a Terminator robot but he's just as bad at assassinating people as Winter Soldier was. There was a "Budapesht" reference.

I wasn't thrilled. There's only so many stunt fights and explosions and stuntpeople doing three-point landings that I can take.
 


embee

Lawyer by day. Rules lawyer by night.
I mean, it's a Marvel movie. They've made like 25 movies with the same formula now!
I'll grant that I had a sub-optimal viewing experience. Namely, with the volume somewhat low because my kids were asleep upstairs. But I'd be like "Oh... another improbable car chase gun fight. Okay, I guess I'll pick up toys for a few minutes."

On the other hand, the Disney+ series all have engaged me and have the exact same viewing conditions. Same TV. Same volume level. Same room that needs to be cleaned. And those shows have all been engaging enough to get me to stop tidying.

This was just a series of same fights that, based on my comic knowledge of Taskmaster, was going to culminate in an Ultimate Same Fight.

At least The Avengers had the ridiculosity of Black Widow knocking someone out with a hair flip. I can get behind that ridiculousness.

Black Widow falls face-first into ductwork and overhangs from 50 feet up and is unscathed is the bad kind of ridiculous and no amount of Russian Super Serum is going to shore it up.
 

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