Blade Barrier - Overpowered? I think so.
- Thread starter Anabstercorian
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War Golem
First Post
Vaxalon said:
It seems to me you are putting arbitrary restrictions on the spell that should not be there, which is your call, of course. I suppose every DM does that sooner or later with certain spells.
Anyone have any thoughts on the first question I posed:
1- The AoE is a disk up to 30' radius, but it cannot affect solid objects. If the spell is cast in a long corridor that is only 20' wide, is the spell confined to a full circle 20' across, or would if expand to fill the limit of its range along the corridor, while merely filling up the 20' in the other direction? (Hope that made sense.)
Vaxalon - in your case, we could say it's a corridor with a 30' high ceiling, but only 20' across. Should the disk reach the ceiling (not technically circular in shape any longer), or be limited to 20' in the vertical direction?
Cheers,
-War Golem
Henry
Autoexreginated
I think some people here may have the misconception that Blade Barrier is one solid blade, like a rotary saw. Instead, by the spell description, it is a 30' radius area of magically created, whirring, spinning blades. However, given the rules for area effect spells, it would conform to the area it was cast in. So, no sawing rooms in half or such, as my group used to play it.
However, it plays pretty well as is. Only a saving throw the first round, and thereafter it alters the landscape of the conflict.
My only question is, how THICK is this disk? The only way I could see things not crawling under it is if you cast it at about calf height on the floor, which strikes me as very anti-climactic.
However, it plays pretty well as is. Only a saving throw the first round, and thereafter it alters the landscape of the conflict.
My only question is, how THICK is this disk? The only way I could see things not crawling under it is if you cast it at about calf height on the floor, which strikes me as very anti-climactic.
Jondor_Battlehammer
First Post
The spell rotates on a plane, so I would belive that it is only as thick as a standard blade.
It would fill out to it's maximum volume, just as any other AoE spell. so in a 10' x 20' room, it would fill the room, at whatever plane it was placed on.
I suppose the various Wall spells are also designed to be used as barriers, not weapons. However, you can still tip them over on your foes. The spell states that it does damage to those caught in it's creation. If it were not supposed to be used like that, I would think they would not allow it to be created at all in such a place. They made such an example with a Wall of Force (?). Any portion of the wall that hits something leaves a gap in the wall.
It would fill out to it's maximum volume, just as any other AoE spell. so in a 10' x 20' room, it would fill the room, at whatever plane it was placed on.
I suppose the various Wall spells are also designed to be used as barriers, not weapons. However, you can still tip them over on your foes. The spell states that it does damage to those caught in it's creation. If it were not supposed to be used like that, I would think they would not allow it to be created at all in such a place. They made such an example with a Wall of Force (?). Any portion of the wall that hits something leaves a gap in the wall.
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(Psi)SeveredHead
Adventurer
It's like Wall of Fire, only more powerful. At least it only does damage once.
Shard O'Glase
First Post
No it does damage multiple times jsut liek wall of fire. If you are dumb enough, nsane enough, or a big enough tank to shrug off the damage and decide to stay in the damaging area whether it be fre damage from the wall fo fire or slashing damage from blade barrier it can happen more than once.
And it does an obscenely large amount more damage than wall of fire. Wall of fire seems to take into account its levels, its duration, its additional purposes. And it does what if you are sitting in it 2d6(+1 a level) so at 20th level if it doesn't have a cap ooh, ah 27 points of fire damage. 1d6 per level, 20d6 cap for a cleric spell that is 6th level just shouldn't happen. And no it won't on any obvious level break the game, damage caps by themselves don't do that. The only thing damage caps do is balance spells for efficiency and metamagic feats. For exmaple if fireball had no damage cap, at 20th level its doing 20d6 wouldn't break the game because you can dish out 20d6 spells anyways. It does break the spell though because it cost you a lot less in resourses, than a 20d6 spell should and if you decided to empower it or maximize it would out damage the other higher level spells you could have access to and likely by a good bit. Same thing applies for balde barrier though on a less dynamic scale. You get more bang for you buck than you should out of a 6th level spell(20d6), and if you decided to empower it(effectively 30d6 for 8th level) or maximize it 120 points of damage at (9th elvel spells) it then outdamages other spells of its new level.
And it does an obscenely large amount more damage than wall of fire. Wall of fire seems to take into account its levels, its duration, its additional purposes. And it does what if you are sitting in it 2d6(+1 a level) so at 20th level if it doesn't have a cap ooh, ah 27 points of fire damage. 1d6 per level, 20d6 cap for a cleric spell that is 6th level just shouldn't happen. And no it won't on any obvious level break the game, damage caps by themselves don't do that. The only thing damage caps do is balance spells for efficiency and metamagic feats. For exmaple if fireball had no damage cap, at 20th level its doing 20d6 wouldn't break the game because you can dish out 20d6 spells anyways. It does break the spell though because it cost you a lot less in resourses, than a 20d6 spell should and if you decided to empower it or maximize it would out damage the other higher level spells you could have access to and likely by a good bit. Same thing applies for balde barrier though on a less dynamic scale. You get more bang for you buck than you should out of a 6th level spell(20d6), and if you decided to empower it(effectively 30d6 for 8th level) or maximize it 120 points of damage at (9th elvel spells) it then outdamages other spells of its new level.
(Psi)SeveredHead
Adventurer
No it does damage multiple times jsut liek wall of fire. If you are dumb enough, nsane enough, or a big enough tank to shrug off the damage and decide to stay in the damaging area whether it be fre damage from the wall fo fire or slashing damage from blade barrier it can happen more than once.
Only if the opponent is dumb, IMO. Note that, unlike the Harm spell, the opponent can do something about it (avoid the barrier).
And it does an obscenely large amount more damage than wall of fire.
Yes, the amount of damage might be too high, although I wouldn't know, since my PCs (and NPCs) always avoided the barrier like the plague. Note that the spell is a full-round action, and a cleric can't cast Improved Invisibility (and if there's a Domain that lets you do it... well, I don't think most domains were balanced with each other). Of course, I also think Wall of Fire does too little damage, and same with Wall of Ice.
For some reason, the 2e Wall of Ice was so much cooler (no pun intended). If you surround yourself with a hemisphere, it doesn't do damage, and nearly any creature can break through it to get to you. If you use an ice plane, your opponent is simply delayed for one round as they walk around it.
Also, Wall of Stone is a little too weak. It has no AC, of course, so Power Attack makes up for the hardness. It has too few hp; stone shouldn't have so few hp per inch, compared to natural stone.
Only if the opponent is dumb, IMO. Note that, unlike the Harm spell, the opponent can do something about it (avoid the barrier).
And it does an obscenely large amount more damage than wall of fire.
Yes, the amount of damage might be too high, although I wouldn't know, since my PCs (and NPCs) always avoided the barrier like the plague. Note that the spell is a full-round action, and a cleric can't cast Improved Invisibility (and if there's a Domain that lets you do it... well, I don't think most domains were balanced with each other). Of course, I also think Wall of Fire does too little damage, and same with Wall of Ice.
For some reason, the 2e Wall of Ice was so much cooler (no pun intended). If you surround yourself with a hemisphere, it doesn't do damage, and nearly any creature can break through it to get to you. If you use an ice plane, your opponent is simply delayed for one round as they walk around it.
Also, Wall of Stone is a little too weak. It has no AC, of course, so Power Attack makes up for the hardness. It has too few hp; stone shouldn't have so few hp per inch, compared to natural stone.
Malin Genie
First Post
Large opponents may also have the fun option of bull-rusing/grappling and throwing the PCs into their own Blade Barrier...
Another point, though: the spell text states that creatures 'entering or passing through' the barrier take damage. It does not state that damage is applied evey round. If a zombie took four rounds to cross the area of tha spell, there is nothing (to me) in the spell description that would suggest it would take the damage four times.
Another point, though: the spell text states that creatures 'entering or passing through' the barrier take damage. It does not state that damage is applied evey round. If a zombie took four rounds to cross the area of tha spell, there is nothing (to me) in the spell description that would suggest it would take the damage four times.
(Psi)SeveredHead
Adventurer
Here I think I'm leaning towards fail your save and get another one next round IF you immediately try and leave the AoE
I interpret it this way too.
If a zombie is walking through a Blade Barrier (stupid zombie!), it takes the damage, perhaps over four rounds, unless it attempts to leave the AoE by the shortest means possible (n which case, it gets an AoE). Note that a character walking through a Wall of Fire doesn't get a save.
I interpret it this way too.
If a zombie is walking through a Blade Barrier (stupid zombie!), it takes the damage, perhaps over four rounds, unless it attempts to leave the AoE by the shortest means possible (n which case, it gets an AoE). Note that a character walking through a Wall of Fire doesn't get a save.
I think one thing everyone is not considering is that trying too hard to "balance" the spells in respect to one another is a good way to kill unique flavor. I think the fact that a lot of people think it can be used in "inappropriate" ways is actually a sign of a good spell you can get creative with.
It'd also be nice if some of the people claiming it's broken would actually respond to the points the defenders of the spell made about the full-round casting time or the save for no damage, instead of sticking their fingers in their ears and yelling "Damage caps! Damage caps! I'm not listening to you! Damage caps!"
It'd also be nice if some of the people claiming it's broken would actually respond to the points the defenders of the spell made about the full-round casting time or the save for no damage, instead of sticking their fingers in their ears and yelling "Damage caps! Damage caps! I'm not listening to you! Damage caps!"
