Blade Barrier - Overpowered? I think so.

Shard O'Glase said:
No it does damage multiple times jsut liek wall of fire. If you are dumb enough, nsane enough, or a big enough tank to shrug off the damage and decide to stay in the damaging area whether it be fre damage from the wall fo fire or slashing damage from blade barrier it can happen more than once.

And it does an obscenely large amount more damage than wall of fire. Wall of fire seems to take into account its levels, its duration, its additional purposes. And it does what if you are sitting in it 2d6(+1 a level) so at 20th level if it doesn't have a cap ooh, ah 27 points of fire damage. 1d6 per level, 20d6 cap for a cleric spell that is 6th level just shouldn't happen. And no it won't on any obvious level break the game, damage caps by themselves don't do that. The only thing damage caps do is balance spells for efficiency and metamagic feats. For exmaple if fireball had no damage cap, at 20th level its doing 20d6 wouldn't break the game because you can dish out 20d6 spells anyways. It does break the spell though because it cost you a lot less in resourses, than a 20d6 spell should and if you decided to empower it or maximize it would out damage the other higher level spells you could have access to and likely by a good bit. Same thing applies for balde barrier though on a less dynamic scale. You get more bang for you buck than you should out of a 6th level spell(20d6), and if you decided to empower it(effectively 30d6 for 8th level) or maximize it 120 points of damage at (9th elvel spells) it then outdamages other spells of its new level.

There is a HUGE difference between this and every other damaging spell however. YOU GET A SAVE TO AVOID ALL DAMAGE. On top of that, is has a 1 round casting time, making it hard to pull off well.

This is perfectly balanced, unlike that ridiculously overpowered Harm that can fell a Hecatoncheires or a Prismatic Dragon in a single hit. Those two LAUGH at Blade Barrier, but die when hit with Harm. The only really unbalanced spells in this game are Harm and Enervation. (There are others, but these are the worst.)
 

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Anubis, I'm starting to get the feeling that you don't like the Harm spell. :p

As for Blade Barrier, it sounds as if I need to start using it more often. . .
 

Anubis said:


There is a HUGE difference between this and every other damaging spell however. YOU GET A SAVE TO AVOID ALL DAMAGE. On top of that, is has a 1 round casting time, making it hard to pull off well.

This is perfectly balanced, unlike that ridiculously overpowered Harm that can fell a Hecatoncheires or a Prismatic Dragon in a single hit. Those two LAUGH at Blade Barrier, but die when hit with Harm. The only really unbalanced spells in this game are Harm and Enervation. (There are others, but these are the worst.)

It's not like Harm or Enervation ignore spell resistance. Unless the character is high enough level to even have a chance of beating their SR, monsters will laugh at his spells. And, if he can beat their SR, then he could conceivably kill them anyway.
 

Victim said:


It's not like Harm or Enervation ignore spell resistance. Unless the character is high enough level to even have a chance of beating their SR, monsters will laugh at his spells. And, if he can beat their SR, then he could conceivably kill them anyway.

I'm sorry, but SR NEVER is a balance for a spell. Using the application of SR to balance a spell is indeed quite ridiculous, because as far as I know, all major damaging spells are subject to SR. ALL OF THEM. Meteor Swarm, Harm, Blade Barrier, Evervation, Energy Drain, Destruction, ALL OF THEM.

So please stop using SR as an excuse. Saving throws balance some spells as do damage caps, but SR never does.
 

My question about blade barrier has always been, does it make any sound?

I mean, the blades whirl and such, but is there any whoosing sounds are whatnot. Because, if not then putting a blade barrier in a dark room or one with a darkness spell, and you have a spell that can chopsui a whole lot of people going through that room.
 

Stalker0 said:
My question about blade barrier has always been, does it make any sound?

I mean, the blades whirl and such, but is there any whoosing sounds are whatnot. Because, if not then putting a blade barrier in a dark room or one with a darkness spell, and you have a spell that can chopsui a whole lot of people going through that room.

Put that together with an Unhollow spell (with Darkness as the mixture spell) and you've got even more fun.
 

I would say that unless it is specifically noted as being silent, any spell as violent as this would have a sound associated with it.
 

Anubis said:


I'm sorry, but SR NEVER is a balance for a spell. Using the application of SR to balance a spell is indeed quite ridiculous, because as far as I know, all major damaging spells are subject to SR. ALL OF THEM. Meteor Swarm, Harm, Blade Barrier, Evervation, Energy Drain, Destruction, ALL OF THEM.

So please stop using SR as an excuse. Saving throws balance some spells as do damage caps, but SR never does.

I'm just saying that the attacks aren't automatically going to down those kinds of foes, like say they would against a fighter without SR.

Enervation is hardly on the same level as harm. It's going to be a fairly slow kill. Also, there are plenty of countermeasures that can be taken as the negative levels are stacking up.
 

Anubis said:


There is a HUGE difference between this and every other damaging spell however. YOU GET A SAVE TO AVOID ALL DAMAGE. On top of that, is has a 1 round casting time, making it hard to pull off well.

This is perfectly balanced, unlike that ridiculously overpowered Harm that can fell a Hecatoncheires or a Prismatic Dragon in a single hit. Those two LAUGH at Blade Barrier, but die when hit with Harm. The only really unbalanced spells in this game are Harm and Enervation. (There are others, but these are the worst.)

Just because harm is more broken doesn't mean blade barrier is ballanced. A full round casting time and reflex negates(with the if you can get out fot he area, and don't voluntarily enter the area) can excuse the damage caps if this were merely a instaneous blasting spell. When you add in its other large benefits, like being a dang effective barrier, providing 1/2 cover, oh and absurd continuing damage if the caster decides to use even a shred of team work and have the party wizard cast an assortment of slow down style spells like slow fog, web etc then the reflex save negates and one round casting time(being hasted which is fairly easy by this level makes this a full round action) don't even come close to balancing this spell.
 

Lela said:


Put that together with an Unhollow spell (with Darkness as the mixture spell) and you've got even more fun.

Except that unhallow has a casting time of 1 day. I suppose you could cast a persistent blade barrier.
 

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