Blade Cascade Unleashed!

[Ipissimus]

That seems like an easy and elegant solution without totally nerfing the power.

My only problem is that I believe (if I'm remembering the math correctly) that still leaves the average damage around 17[W]+17xStr. Mod. From what I've seen in the book so far, that's significantly better than most 29th level dailies not counting crits and weapon optimization.

BC's just too good for a 15th level daily. I still think that increasing the 'auto fail' range to 1-4 for that power is the best solution. Make the fluff something to the effect of 'you attack more but you are less accurate with each strike'. That still allows everyone to use all their cool powers and keeps the damage down unless the ranger gets a break in the dice. If you want, lay the 'no rerolls' on top of that, in fact, I recommend it.

After testing it out, I got about 5 rolls average that way (assuming the ranger hits on anything but a 1-4). Consider a 29th level Rogue power gives 7W+Dex... still makes Blade Cascade potentially better but not significantly so when the Rogue optimizes damage for Assassin's Point.

 

[Sitara]

Well guy's, unless you are starting near level 15 right off the bat, I say wait to see what wotc does. Pay a visit to the char op board that guy linked to and they have some crazy combos (though admitedly, and thankfully, most of the combos there only come into power at around level 28-30) Furthermore, there is also a potentiallybroken blood mage combo with a priest paragon path (divine oracle I think) which makes the bloodmage do INSANE damage every round.

Also keep in mind that the ranger is SUPPOSED to do higher damage than everyone else, because he is a martial striker. Yes, his dailies are supposed to be stronger in damaging than other dailies of the same level. Even stronger than the warlock, the other striker because the warlock can use IMPLEMENTS in conjunction with his powers (this is why the ranger looks the better strike at first glance, because implements aren't factored in.)

Still IMO a level 16 ranger/Kensei with blade cascade is a thing to be feared by creatures far greater than his level...so some of the houserules proposed here seem fine I personally though will wait to see what an errata brings.

 

[Thasmodious]

I think this is one of those theoretically broken things that isn't really broken in gameplay. You would need a pretty magical set of circumstances and a big bag of tactics that went perfectly to actually pull this off against an equal leveled Big Bad. The one time it might come up over the course of a game, if played out, could be pretty awesome. It's not even something worth worrying about until you actually have a player trying to abuse it, then the fix is ridiculously easy. That is one thing, among many, that I love about 4e. If a power is broke, it requires one minor fix and doesn't affect the rest of the game at all. It's much easier to correct a problem.

Plus, things like this give optimizers something to do. Imagine if they put their impressive theoretical talents to system mastery of military applications of Game Theory in the modern battlefield. Pun-Pun in the real world...not good.

 

[cdrcjsn]

True, but the paladin is the only class who can do this (i.e. spend surges on himself multiple times) Cleric and WL helaing basic abilities can only be used on allies (I think!)

Just to clarify that yes, you can use it on yourself if you have healing word or inspiring word.

I encourage all defenders everywhere to take either MC feat just to get that once per day effect as a minor action.

 

[cdrcjsn]

Yep, but its not an immediate interrupt or an immediate reaction. So the dragon can breathe instantly, but only on the start of its turn.

This is incorrect.

Most of these "trigger when bloodied" abilities are free actions, meaning you can use them at any time, even on other people's turns.

That dragon would've breathed on you when you got him to half hit points and weakened you (making all your attacks from then on do half damage).

The 9th level solo monster is effectively a level 13 foe, not really a fair match for a 15th level character even if by himself. A 15th level paladin could also kill that dragon by himself (though probably not in 2-3 rounds like a ranger could).

 

[pallen]

The 9th level solo monster is effectively a level 13 foe, not really a fair match for a 15th level character even if by himself.

This is incorrect. A level 9 solo monster is worth 2000 XP, which is equivalent to a level 18 standard monster. That should be a challenging fight for a level 15 character.

Of course, I want to know how a PC gets that close to a solo dragon before the encounter starts. This combo only works if you're within walking range when the encounter starts. Any further than that and the dragon just hovers and uses its dragon breath, safe from any melee attacks.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Most of these "trigger when bloodied" abilities are free actions, meaning you can use them at any time, even on other people's turns.

This is true. The real question is--Can you use a free action as an interrupt? The rules are silent on that one. I'd definitely like to know, since I have a few powers now with my character that are Free Actions, and I had thought I couldn't interrupt with them.

 

[Kaffis]

Keep in mind, particularly in this thread's "test case," that blade cascade's potential for brokenness is only exaggerated by a level disparity. So taking a 15th level ranger against an 11th level white dragon (speaking of which -- was this templated or something? the MM has adult white as 9th level at 23 ac, no?) would look a lot different than a 15th level ranger (with friends, even) against a level 17 elder, with 31 AC. Namely, the miss chance jumps by 40% if the 11th level one was on the die to begin with.

Can Blade Cascade still get out of control against more realistic opponents? Sure it can. But you have to work a lot harder to do it which means you can curtail it without much intervention.

 

[Kaffis]

This is true. The real question is--Can you use a free action as an interrupt? The rules are silent on that one. I'd definitely like to know, since I have a few powers now with my character that are Free Actions, and I had thought I couldn't interrupt with them.

Not unless the free action says it can interrupt (in which case, most of the time it will be an immediate interrupt action, not a free one -- though I could see the design desire to have a free action that interrupts so that it may be used on your turn, as well, or without a specific trigger). Free actions, in general, cannot interrupt.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Not unless the free action says it can interrupt (in which case, most of the time it will be an immediate interrupt action, not a free one -- though I could see the design desire to have a free action that interrupts so that it may be used on your turn, as well, or without a specific trigger). Free actions, in general, cannot interrupt.

Just as I thought. So in that case, the dragon breath can come right after Blade Cascade, but not during, so cdrcjsn's point, while correct in that the OP is in error, is moot.

That's too bad--although my instinct said it could not interrupt (and we have indeed been playing this way) I didn't see any statements either way in the Free Action section of the PH, and the Dwarven Armour ability would be extremely powerful if it could interrupt.