D&D 5E Bladesinger/arcane trickster

[auburn2]

but even without the 1 and 1/5 str...its still more than what a melee rogue can do (sorry, i didnt consider ranged with shapeshifter) and if it gets the racial feats of half orc or EA + rackless attack as an half elf, with brutal critical it can deal tons of damage. Anyway 5e I think is archery friendly and mostly of what you can do with a sword you can do it better with a bow (archery fighters, better if battlemaster, are awesome in 5e), but i would not understimate the dpr of a barbarian zealot, with the right race and the right feats i dont think is below the rogue, except sneak attack enter every round or to get a missunderstand about the surprised rules if we talk about assassin.

If you can't SA every turn at your table (and you certainly can't at mine) then it is not better. If you can do SA every round a ranged Rogue will do more than a Barbarian at most levels. You mention brutal critical, this will illustrate the difference - the Barbarian gets brutal critical at 9th level which is an extra 1d12 (6.5) on a critical hit. At 9th level a Rogue with a Rapier or a crossbow does an extra 5d6 on a critical (17.5). So a Rogue has a critical that is nearly 3 times as damaging as brutal critical.

If you are concerned only about damage on a Rogue then ranged is best the way to go. But on a melee Rogue if you want to optimize damage you would take charger feat which would give you +5 damage if you move 10ft in a straight line. If you have a whip this is easy to do ....although you need to get proficiency in whip which a Rogue does not have automatically. If you do not have a whip you have to move a lot and take a lot of opportunity attacks to make it work but if you can handle the opportunity attacks you will do a lot of damage, at most levels more than a comparable barbarian. If you do not have a whip I would also get mobile feat if I wanted to do this. Every turn you need to back up, then take dash action and move10ft (3 meters) in a straight line toward the enemy and you get a bonus action attack with +5 damage.

 

[Adb0782]

If you can't SA every turn at your table (and you certainly can't at mine) then it is not better. If you can do SA every round a ranged Rogue will do more than a Barbarian at most levels. You mention brutal critical, this will illustrate the difference - the Barbarian gets brutal critical at 9th level which is an extra 1d12 (6.5) on a critical hit. At 9th level a Rogue with a Rapier or a crossbow does an extra 5d6 on a critical (17.5). So a Rogue has a critical that is nearly 3 times as damaging as brutal critical.

If you are concerned only about damage on a Rogue then ranged is best the way to go. But on a melee Rogue if you want to optimize damage you would take charger feat which would give you +5 damage if you move 10ft in a straight line. If you have a whip this is easy to do ....although you need to get proficiency in whip which a Rogue does not have automatically. If you do not have a whip you have to move a lot and take a lot of opportunity attacks to make it work but if you can handle the opportunity attacks you will do a lot of damage, at most levels more than a comparable barbarian. If you do not have a whip I would also get mobile feat if I wanted to do this. Every turn you need to back up, then take dash action and move10ft (3 meters) in a straight line toward the enemy and you get a bonus action attack with +5 damage.

even sneaking every round with hand corossbow im not sure it deal more damage than a zealot barb, which add 2d6 + his level halved to damage. but yea anyway, generally ranged rogue does more than barb if SA every round, but its something cant happen also at my table.

 

[Adb0782]

Backing to the BS, what about give it 2 lv of fighters and go BS all the way? Fighting style, action surge, some heal, some hp, weapons proficiency...plus he give me con save so dont need resilient anymore, that can be used on some other feat (sentinel? or simply +2 dex maybe) can be worth?

 

[auburn2]

Backing to the BS, what about give it 2 lv of fighters and go BS all the way? Fighting style, action surge, some heal, some hp, weapons proficiency...plus he give me con save so dont need resilient anymore, that can be used on some other feat (sentinel? or simply +2 dex maybe) can be worth?

I would not do that. More spells will be better than those features.

You don't "need" resilient constitution. You use add your intelligence bonus for concentration checks when in bladesong which is when it matters the most. Resilient constitution is an option if you have an odd constitution score, but it is not something I took. Warcaster is another options which is generally a better feat for a bladesinger and gives you advantage on concentration saves (it would also take care of the TWF houserule at your table).

IMO Dexterity, Wisdom saves and Charisma saves are more important than Constitution saves for a bladesinger. Those are not boosted by bladesong and some spells can penetrate your defenses easily by going against one of these. Note if you start as a wizard you get proficiency wisdom saves so that is better than starting as a fighter.

 

[Adb0782]

I would not do that. More spells will be better than those features.

You don't "need" resilient constitution. You use add your intelligence bonus for concentration checks when in bladesong which is when it matters the most. Resilient constitution is an option if you have an odd constitution score, but it is not something I took. Warcaster is another options which is generally a better feat for a bladesinger and gives you advantage on concentration saves (it would also take care of the TWF houserule at your table).

IMO Dexterity, Wisdom saves and Charisma saves are more important than Constitution saves for a bladesinger. Those are not boosted by bladesong and some spells can penetrate your defenses easily by going against one of these. Note if you start as a wizard you get proficiency wisdom saves so that is better than starting as a fighter.

well, the question was kinda theoretical bcs i already started as BS 3 and cant get back.
The point with resilient is that i have an odd con, i can probably still change it as we played just 1 session with no fights but i dont know how to fix it better:

str 8
dex 16
con 15
int 16
wis 10
cha 8

is my actual stat, the race his homebrew and it give me +2 dex and +1 int, but that 8 cha also is worring me. Assuming i cant touch dex and int, 13 con seem a bit too low for decide to fix cha, even getting resilient (con) at lv 12...that probably can mean suffer too much the concentration savings till that point. At the same time, 0 or -1 in cha dont make a so huge difference, both case ill probably fail the cha savings, and yea, with this stat the saving profiency in wis is a godsend. On the other hand i also dont find a way to make con be not odd...maybe i can start with 15 int and 16 con and than get, as feats, this progression:

shadow touched, +2 dex +2 int, warcaster, +2 int (or dex)

but i need than to choose what maximize, if int or dex, and warcaster enter so late, while i can go with: +2 dex, +2 int, resilient (con), +2 dex, + 2 int leaving con odd and fixing it at lv 12, where it gonna give a huge boost to hp and concentration.

ps I would love to get the metamagic adept feat, probably for extended spell (for use it on mage armor, longstrider and similar), but i dont think there is space with this stat, unless give up maximize one between dex and int and im not that sure its worth it, or well, im kinda sure it isnt, except i find at least one SP somehow for choose twinned spell and twin haste, but i dont think its possible without get some lv of sorcerer and again, it probably have few sense.
And before i forget again: do you think simulacrum can recover slots with arcane recovery? Im assuming yes as "recover" and "regain" are used intentionally in 2 different situations for make more clear the difference. So He dont regain spell slot after rest, but he can recover spell slot with arcane recovery?
and it is possible for a simulacrum of a wizard of the right lv to cast simulacrum?

 

[auburn2]

well, the question was kinda theoretical bcs i already started as BS 3 and cant get back.
The point with resilient is that i have an odd con, i can probably still change it as we played just 1 session with no fights but i dont know how to fix it better:

str 8
dex 16
con 15
int 16
wis 10
cha 8

is my actual stat, the race his homebrew and it give me +2 dex and +1 int, but that 8 cha also is worring me. Assuming i cant touch dex and int, 13 con seem a bit too low for decide to fix cha, even getting resilient (con) at lv 12...that probably can mean suffer too much the concentration savings till that point. At the same time, 0 or -1 in cha dont make a so huge difference, both case ill probably fail the cha savings, and yea, with this stat the saving profiency in wis is a godsend. On the other hand i also dont find a way to make con be not odd...maybe i can start with 15 int and 16 con and than get, as feats, this progression:

shadow touched, +2 dex +2 int, warcaster, +2 int (or dex)

but i need than to choose what maximize, if int or dex, and warcaster enter so late, while i can go with: +2 dex, +2 int, resilient (con), +2 dex, + 2 int leaving con odd and fixing it at lv 12, where it gonna give a huge boost to hp and concentration.

ps I would love to get the metamagic adept feat (or sentinel), probably for extended spell (for use it on mage armor, longstrider and similar), but i dont think there is space with this stat, unless give up maximize one between dex and int and im not that sure its worth it, or well, im kinda sure it isnt, except i find at least one SP somehow for choose twinned spell and twin haste, but i dont think its possible without get some lv of sorcerer and again, it probably have few sense.
And before i forget again: do you think simulacrum can recover slots with arcane recovery? Im assuming yes as "recover" and "regain" are used intentionally in 2 different situations for make more clear the difference. So He dont regain spell slot after rest, but he can recover spell slot with arcane recovery?
and it is possible for a simulacrum of a wizard of the right lv to cast simulacrum?

Maximizing dex is better, but shadow touched will add +1 to inteligence. Fey touched is better than shadow touched I think, but if you like shadow touched better go for it. What I would do is:
4th level shadow touched (+1 intelligence)
8th level +1 intelligence +1 constitution
12thlevel +2 dexterity

 

[Adb0782]

Edit: double post.

 

[Adb0782]

Maximizing dex is better, but shadow touched will add +1 to inteligence. Fey touched is better than shadow touched I think, but if you like shadow touched better go for it. What I would do is:
4th level shadow touched (+1 intelligence)
8th level +1 intelligence +1 constitution
12thlevel +2 dexterity

fey touched is better i suppose too, misty step and hex.
For that feat progression im supposed to start with which stats?

same stat i posted and than get: fey touch, +1 int and + 1 con, + 2 dex, warcaster, + 2 dex?

 

[Adb0782]

But i dont know...hex is certain good probably till lv 6 and use misty step one time without spell slot is even better, but its worth delay dex progression so late and dont maximize int at all? Its probably easier to find a way to make my sword an arcane focus and dual welding from there on...

 

[auburn2]

But i dont know...hex is certain good probably till lv 6 and use misty step one time without spell slot is even better, but its worth delay dex progression so late and dont maximize int at all? Its probably easier to find a way to make my sword an arcane focus and dual welding from there on...

If you are playing a multiclass bladesinger/Rogue yes I definitely think it is because it also gives you two more casts a day and you will be losing some from the Rogue levels. For any bladesinger it is better than reslient constitution IMO.

That said do what you think is best. If it is a single class bladesinger push dex +2 or take fey touched, either are good options.

My main focus was on the stats you gave: Fey touched and +1int/+1con would let you push two stats up by another +1, which is good, while also giving you some spells. IMO D16, C16, I18 + misty step&hex is about the same as D20, C15, I16. But both of those are substantially better than D18, C16, I16 + constitution save proficiency. I think there are better combinations than resiliency will offer.