D&D 5E Bladesinger tank!? Madness, or crazy like a fox?

[GMforPowergamers]

at 5th level arcane tickester has +1 multi class chart, 1 ASI +3d6 sneak attack, expertise, some prof, and a cool mage hand trick at parties, and uncanny dodge... take 1 more level to get another level of multi class chart and more expertise

14/6 is 8th level spell slots, but only 7th level spells. and you get all the bladesinger features...

uncanny dodge lets you use your reaction to take half damage to any attack that makes an attack roll and isn't a surprise (I don't have the word for word right now).

I know that doesn't sound like much, but our straight rogue does an OK job as secondary tank in a pinch.

 

[Blue]

Funny, I just picked up SCAG from my FLGS and was thinking the same thing. I think a blademaster could be a completely viable front line character - a gish to use slightly older terminology. But the lack of HPs I think would stop them from being the ONLY front-liner. Much like a melee rogue can stay in the front lines but not be the primary focus, I think a bladesinger would have problems as primary tank.

They do have Shield, Absorb Elements (from EE companion) and Counterspell to help resilience. And plenty of short/melee range spells and cantrips. And with the bonus could probably do a decent job keeping a concentration spell going even if getting attacked a lot. You can make a kick-rear front liner (for 2 battles per rest), and I'm thinking about trying one if my current character dies.

 

[Blue]

Max DEX and INT, so static AC of 18. Not great, but not crap.

Lots of good stuff, but I think AC might be slightly better than you think.

Bladesong works in light armor but that doesn't stop the good old mage armor (which even a 1st level wizard can recover with Arcane Recovery). AC 12 for studded leather and eventually up with magic, AC 13 if you spend a 1st level slot for mage armor. A High Elf might start with S 10 D 16 C 14 I 16 W 10 Ch 10. So starting AC is 19 with Mage Armor, and every ASI will give +1 AC until you've maxed Int, Dex (and picked up Dual Wielder feat if you want - it also grants +1 AC with it's other goodness). Goes up to 23 without magic items. Use Shield when you need it and you're doing quite well.

Doesn't help during surprise or when there are more than two encounters between short rests, but not lousy.

 

[Parmandur]

To replace the Fighter or Paladin in a party of four?

No. Honestly, the Bladesinger will probably work best in a larger party, where there is another full caster and front line dude, at least, so the Bladesinger has the room to play around.

 

[Parmandur]

Or, another way to look at it: the Eldritch Knight can't compare to a Wizard in terms of magic. The Bladesinger can cast 9th level spells, and other basic Wizard things, can't hold up like a Fighter, but much better than the other Wizards in melee.

 

[hejtmane]

I think there a lot of reasons to multi bladesinger with EK fighter, personally. Sure, you lose spell options, but honestly, I don't think you're playing a bladesinger for 9th level spells (though foresight looks really hot on any melee character).

You'll want to start with fighter, obviously, for gear, and CON SV proficiency. Depending on whether or not you plan to wear armor once you're a bladesinger, you take either defense or duelist fighting styles. Since you want a tank, use defense.

If you're looking to tank, I'd go with 8 levels of EK fighter and 12 of wizard. You'll end up with 7th level spell slots, but that's not super important.

The reasoning: The ability to cast a cantrip every round lets you cast blade ward every round. You're now at half damage from weapon attacks that hit you. That hardly even counts being able to maintain a CONCEN spell like blur or haste. And you can still hit things once.

You've got 6 ASIs as well. Max DEX and INT, so static AC of 18. Not great, but not crap. Still have 2 ASIs. Spend one of those on War Caster so you can keep your deflection spells up. ADV + CON SV Prof is decent, and doesn't count your bonus during bladesong. Your other ASI can go to CON+2, Tough, Magic Initiate (Cleric, for resistance, guidance, and shield of faith) or (Wizard, if 8 cantrips (High elf) isn't enough for you, plus a free shield), Defensive Duelist (to conserve spell slots, though it isn't as good as shield), or Resilient (Wisdom) to help with those pesky disabling mind-f---ing spells.

You should be a decent secondary tank that way. But you're never going to be able to tank a massive hit from a spell the way a fighter or paladin can. You're never going to hit the Paladin's 21 base AC (and by level 20, that should be 23 a good percentage of the time). But you can hit 23 AC while in the bladesong, with an optional 28 while taking half damage from weapon hits.

EK can wear plate take fighting style defense and go shield/1h wpn war caster 21 ac right there can do that at first level with if you can get plate armor

 

[Ainulindalion]

Lots of good stuff, but I think AC might be slightly better than you think.

Bladesong works in light armor but that doesn't stop the good old mage armor (which even a 1st level wizard can recover with Arcane Recovery). AC 12 for studded leather and eventually up with magic, AC 13 if you spend a 1st level slot for mage armor. A High Elf might start with S 10 D 16 C 14 I 16 W 10 Ch 10. So starting AC is 19 with Mage Armor, and every ASI will give +1 AC until you've maxed Int, Dex (and picked up Dual Wielder feat if you want - it also grants +1 AC with it's other goodness). Goes up to 23 without magic items. Use Shield when you need it and you're doing quite well.

Doesn't help during surprise or when there are more than two encounters between short rests, but not lousy.

The static AC is the AC without Bladesong active. Studded Leather (12) + Defense (+1) + DEX Mod (+5) = 18 or Mage Armor (13) + DEX Mod (+5) = 18.

Also, a Bladesinger can't dual wield and Bladesong.

 

[Ainulindalion]

EK can wear plate take fighting style defense and go shield/1h wpn war caster 21 ac right there can do that at first level with if you can get plate armor

A bladesinger can neither do Sword and Board nor can they wear plate and activate their bladesong. Sure, it might be worth carrying around a shield for when you can't bladesong if you're proficient (which an EK would be). But it does eat an action to put on.

 

[Blue]

Also, a Bladesinger can't dual wield and Bladesong.

The only thing I see is "use two hands to make an attack with a weapon". So no two handed swords (or bows). Now, you'll have some problems with somatic and material components without a feat if dual wielding, but I don't see anything preventing it.

Am I missing something?

 

[Blue]

If you want to multiclass to get fighting styles, would ranger make a viable alternate base then fighter (EK)?

Assuming you already have the Dex 13 for Fighter, you need a Wis 13 for ranger which is a down side. It's not Con save, but you are already getting +Int to concentration.

However a 2 level dip will give you +1 spell level while you need 3 for a fighter EK, and it continues granting spell levels faster if you want to continue. It adds a new spell list instead of EK using the same as wizard, with spells like Hunter's Mark which can help with damage output. Though your Wis will be low so you'll want to aim for spells that don't need attack rolls or saves. If you go up to 3rd the Horde Breaker will let you get a 2nd attack against a foe adjacent to your original target both with normal attacks or if using one of the make-a-weapon-attack cantrips like Green-Flame Blade. (And if you're 3rd, 4th will grant an ASI and another level of casting).

Like fighter you learn shield proficiency for when you are not bladesinging and martial weapons so you have the full list. Same HPs. Skill list is nice.