Bladesinger - Weapon as Implement Confusion

[babinro]

Weapon as Implement appears to be calculating incorrectly in the builder if my understanding of the rules are correct. I'm checking here to see if you guys might be able to clarify some things for me.

I'm building a Bladesinger who gains the following Blade Magic Option:
Rapier- You gain proficiency with Rapier as an implement, meaning you can use your implement powers through it. Rapier also counts as a Wand for you, although it can be enchanted only as a weapon.

My key attack attribute is 18 (+4). Rapier Proficiency is +3. My level 1 feat is Light Blade Expertise: +1 Feat bonus to Attack rolls.

As such, my level 1 character shows his melee basic attack at a +8 vs AC which is correct. It shows my daily (implement power) as only +4 vs Reflex instead of +5. Is this an error in the builder? Or am I wrong in assuming Light Blade expertise counts for both melee basic and implement powers based on the Blade Magic Option listed above?
Note: I equipped my character ONLY with a Rapier when trying this.

Secondly, does this mean that if I take Weapon Focus (Rapier) at level 2 that I'll get a plus 1/tier bonus to damage rolls with my melee basic attack and my implement daily powers? The builder says no for what I assume is the same problem.

 

[Grydan]

+4 vs Reflex is the correct bonus. Light Blade Expertise isn't a +1 Feat bonus to attack rolls, it's a +1 Feat bonus to weapon attack rolls. Even though your implent is a weapon, implement attack rolls aren't covered, sorry.

Same goes for Weapon Focus. Weapon damage rolls only, not implement ones.

 

[john112364]

I ran into the same problem. I think because Light Blade expertise says "Weapon attacks" and not "Implement attacks" it doesn't apply to your daily. I got around this with Vesitile Expertise and took Light blades and wands. There may be a better solution (in which case I would be happy to know of it) but that was my solution. As for weapon focus I would imagine the same issue.

 

[babinro]

+4 vs Reflex is the correct bonus. Light Blade Expertise isn't a +1 Feat bonus to attack rolls, it's a +1 Feat bonus to weapon attack rolls. Even though your implent is a weapon, implement attack rolls aren't covered, sorry.

Same goes for Weapon Focus. Weapon damage rolls only, not implement ones.

I appreciate the response, very helpful. Looks like I'll have to decide over Versatile Expertise or taking both light blade and wand expertise feats for their added effects.

 

[Grydan]

There is an article scheduled for this month's Dragon called:

Weapon and Implement Expertise

By James Auwaerter
Behold! Much-needed feats for characters that wield both weapons and implements.


which will hopefully resolve the issue.

 

[DracoSuave]

Versatile Expertise covers it, you can go Light Blade and... well... whatever else. Maybe you found a really cool orb that goes with your encounter powers. Light Blade and Orb. Awesome.

Or, you can go something and Light Blade. Maybe you want to shoot a bow at something for laughs. Bow and Light Blade.

Light Blade is both a weapon and an implement type, so you can slot it into either side of the Versatile feat. And as a bonus, the feat doesn't care if you use the weapon as a weapon or an implement as an implement. It's all good.

 

[Grydan]

The catch, DracoSuave, is that Versatile Expertise gets its boosts at 15th and 25th, rather than 11th and 21st as the more modern feats do.

Also, the newer feats grant useful perks in addition to the attack bonus.

 

[Unwise]

Given that Weapon Focus won't help your spells, Eladrin Soldier becomes a better feat. It still adds +2 damage to both weapon and impliment attacks.

 

[Grydan]

The article is at last up (Tools of Two Trades, DDI exclusive), and even has two different Expertise feats which are viable choices for Swordmages...

...the catch is that the article is labelled Playtest. So the feats are subject to change, and it'll likely be at least a couple months before they're finalized, and then another month or more after that before they make it into the Character Builder.

 

[drothgery]

The article is at last up (Tools of Two Trades), and even has two different Expertise feats which are viable choices for Swordmages...

...the catch is that the article is labelled Playtest. So the feats are subject to change, and it'll likely be at least a couple months before they're finalized, and then another month or more after that before they make it into the Character Builder.

... and it seems like someone at WotC feels that an Expertise feat that gives bonuses on the Essentials Expertise Feat schedule and works for all weapon and implement powers, all the time, is broken because the article still doesn't do things right. The feats suitable for swordmages (or bladesingers, or dagger sorcerers, or other melee arcanists who have picked up the ability to use a blade as an implement) only work for arcane powers and basic attacks. So if you MC'd into or hybridized with a non-Arcane class, no Expertise bonus for those powers, so it's back to Versatile Expertise and getting the bonus 5 levels later.