D&D 5E bless isn't a bonus action?

[evilbob]

How do people feel about that? Beacon of Hope is the only other one (maaaaybe Holy Aura) that also feels like it should have been a bonus action.

I noticed that there are only a handful of spells that are bonus actions. One of the ideas I really liked from the playtests was that the cleric didn't feel like he had to give up his whole turn just to buff the party. Shield of Faith is (and almost doesn't need to be given the duration) and Sanctuary is; should Bless be one, too? It's already limited by concentration so why go further and make you use your turn?

 

[TerraDave]

If it was a +1, it should be a bonus action.

With a +1d4, it should have a 1 minute casting time, I mean be an action.

 

[Agamon]

If it was a +1, it should be a bonus action.

With a +1d4, it should have a 1 minute casting time, I mean be an action.

Agreed. When my players say, "Holy crap, Bless does what?!?" It should at least cost an action.

 

[evilbob]

It seems like even as a bonus action Bless fits the general power level of other first level spells, though, doesn't it? Or is +1.5 average on attacks and saves really that amazing?

Given those responses, it seems like they tried to make Bless work better at higher levels by giving it a slightly higher average bonus and then limit the spell based on the party size. Which seems weird to me; I'd much rather have a party-wide spell that just gets better instead of being "punished" for just having a big party. Then again, they seem to have really run from the idea that spells cast at higher levels have anything other than linear improvements, and obviously the highest spell levels would start to get ridiculous if that were the case.

I wonder if a static +1 but casting as a bonus action would make a good house rule? This almost seems like a good use of +1 / X caster levels, but they really seem to hate that idea...

 

[TwoSix]

It seems like even as a bonus action Bless fits the general power level of other first level spells, though, doesn't it? Or is +1.5 average on attacks and saves really that amazing?

Given those responses, it seems like they tried to make Bless work better at higher levels by giving it a slightly higher average bonus and then limit the spell based on the party size. Which seems weird to me; I'd much rather have a party-wide spell that just gets better instead of being "punished" for just having a big party. Then again, they seem to have really run from the idea that spells cast at higher levels have anything other than linear improvements, and obviously the highest spell levels would start to get ridiculous if that were the case.

I wonder if a static +1 but casting as a bonus action would make a good house rule? This almost seems like a good use of +1 / X caster levels, but they really seem to hate that idea...

1) It's 2.5, not 1.5.

2) Part of the subtle balancing of spells in 5e is that the higher level spells are objectively better than a lower-level spell cast in a higher-level slot (compare Heal to Cure Wounds, for example). But this is balanced out by the fact that high-level slots are rare, so you need to prepare lower-level spells to use up the majority of your available slots. It's one reason I think any sort of magic point add-on in the DMG is going to be very tricky to balance.

 

[GX.Sigma]

I'd much rather have a party-wide spell that just gets better instead of being "punished" for just having a big party.

It's better than the alternative:

In our playtest game, we had a necromancer Cleric with a bunch of skeletons. He cast Bless (everyone gets +1d4 to attack), and the Bard did the song of battle (everyone gets +1d6 to damage). The party's effectiveness was multiplied by a huge amount.

 

[evilbob]

1) It's 2.5, not 1.5.

2.5 is 1... +1.5. That's what I meant; the additional 1.5 you'd get on average as opposed to the +1 baseline. That was not very clear, sorry.

If higher level spells are strictly better, then why include the extra rules for boosting spells? I guess that's really more of a side conversation. I was definitely hoping for more stuff like Cure Wounds that scales intentionally to avoid having to have multiples of spells (although we're back to healing being a trap with that one).

GX.Sigma: Good counterpoint to the unbounded buff.

 

[evilbob]

On another side note, clerics are in a very weird place with the concentration mechanic. On one hand, if they are concentrating on a buff spell like Bless, they can't cast other spells so they don't have a lot of other things to do other than fight - so they might as well get in there and start swinging. On the other hand, if they get in there and start swinging, they're more likely to take damage and thus lose their concentration. So they'd rather stay out of the fray.

I wonder if Dex-based bow clerics will see a rise?

 

[Umbran]

If higher level spells are strictly better, then why include the extra rules for boosting spells? I guess that's really more of a side conversation.

Eh. Topic drift happens.

Why include those rules? Well, for wizards - you aren't going to have access to all spells. So, say you have a couple of high level spells, but they are defensive, and you need something offensive, like, right now. What do you do? Maybe boosting a lower-level spell isn't as good as casting an intrinsically high-level spell, but that doesn't mean the boosted spell is chopped liver. It makes for interesting choices.

 

[Agamon]

If higher level spells are strictly better, then why include the extra rules for boosting spells? I guess that's really more of a side conversation. I was definitely hoping for more stuff like Cure Wounds that scales intentionally to avoid having to have multiples of spells (although we're back to healing being a trap with that one).

Versatility. It's nice that Cure Wounds and others spells scale, and it really allows for choice when a caster casts a spell, but the actual higher level spells shouldn't be overshadowed by the upleveled ones (see the old Magic Missle vs Fireball kerfuffle) and be good choices themselves, if you want to prepare them.