Blindness

[Eternal54]

Both of them grant Total Concealment, so the net effect is only -5.

Thanks again Nytmare.

 

[DracoSuave]

Just to clarify. The opponent automatically KNOWS where the invisible creature is unless it stealths.

Also to clarify.

The invisible creature is an idiot if it does not stealth.

 

[Nytmare]

Also to clarify.

The invisible creature is an idiot if it does not stealth.

To be fair, a creature doesn't always have the time, or the skill to hide (well) once they turn invisible.

 

[Flipguarder]

Also to clarify.

The invisible creature is an idiot if it does not stealth.

Or it just used all of its actions... it happens...

 

[DracoSuave]

To be fair, a creature doesn't always have the time, or the skill to hide (well) once they turn invisible.

Time required: No action. It's part of a move action. They're invisible, so they easily can make a steath check as part of one.

And if turning invisible is part of a power that uses a Move action to use... hey, that IS a move action, at the end of which they are totally concealed! They can do so immediately.

As for the skill thing:

While most characters do not have the Stealth to hide reliably, most enemies do not have the Perception to find them reliably either. That usually means the chance to hide from a particular foe is about 50% or so.

The chance of hiding without using a skill check is 0%.

0% < 50%. Not having the skill is not an excuse not to -try- when it costs nothing.

 

[DracoSuave]

To be fair, a creature doesn't always have the time, or the skill to hide (well) once they turn invisible.

Time required: No action. It's part of a move action. They're invisible, so they easily can make a steath check as part of one.

And if turning invisible is part of a power that uses a Move action to use... hey, that IS a move action, at the end of which they are totally concealed! They can do so immediately.

As for the skill thing:

While most characters do not have the Stealth to hide reliably, most enemies do not have the Perception to find them reliably either. That usually means the chance to hide from a particular foe is about 50% or so.

The chance of hiding without using a skill check is 0%.

0% < 50%. Not having the skill is not an excuse not to -try- when it costs nothing. You're certainly not going to get 100% unless you dictate actual character building resources to it other than 'I did take one power!'

 

[Nytmare]

Sometimes I respond very angrily at Nytmare.

Time = move action. If you don't have a move action, you don't have the time to try to hide.

Skill to hide (well) = it is a skill check that involves rolling dice and randomness. If you don't have a lot of bonuses, you roll poorly, or one or more of your opponents have high perception, there is a chance that you will not be hidden.

To be fair, a creature doesn't always have the time move action, or the skill to hide (well) rolls well enough on their stealth check once they turn invisible.

 

[DracoSuave]

Time = move action. If you don't have a move action, you don't have the time to try to hide.

Yes, and in most cases, the player who is self-invisibling has control over their own turn, and moving before invisibility is... well... that's the player's fault.

Not always, dazing and all.

But -usually-. The DM didn't do it!

Skill to hide (well) = it is a skill check that involves rolling dice and randomness. If you don't have a lot of bonuses, you roll poorly, or one or more of your opponents have high perception, there is a chance that you will not be hidden.

True, but at least he -tried-. It's not the failing to roll that's the problem, it's failing to -try- that is.

 

[Flipguarder]

So we've come from "anyone who doesn't try to stealth while invisible is an idiot" to "The DM didn't do it"?

Its not a fault of either of them, its a stupid rule. I would think that it's much more often problematic then you are attempting to envision.

Not to say it's a problem even 1/3 the time, but that it can ever come up just seems stupid to me.

 

[DracoSuave]

So we've come from "anyone who doesn't try to stealth while invisible is an idiot" to "The DM didn't do it"?

Its not a fault of either of them, its a stupid rule. I would think that it's much more often problematic then you are attempting to envision.

Not to say it's a problem even 1/3 the time, but that it can ever come up just seems stupid to me.

Well, having invisibility work 0% of the time to completely hide someone is stupid.

And having invisibility work 100% of the time is stupid because unless you're putting forth some effort, you're still making sounds and therefore, are not unfindable by players who deal with magic crazy stuff like that on a fairly regular basis.

So you need a system that sets a number between 0 and 100%. And having it be at 50% for someone untrained in sneakery to try to do so is a fair place. He's untrained in sneaking, so he shouldn't have the advantage, obviously.

So, you need -a- system... and hey, there's a skill for sneaking, and a skill for perception. Bully!

But, as said in other threads, if you're the sort of wizard who does this sort of thing regularly, then having the skill Sneak trained is not only plausible, it's implausible to think you -would not- and is, in fact, BAD roleplay, as you're trying to say your character has no interest in training in something he actually wants to be able to do.