Bo9S: Prerequisites and maneuver swapping

[Three_Haligonians]

Hey everyone,


I am playing a swordsage right now and I have a question about his ability to change out old maneuvers.

I have three Desert Wind maneuvers right now. Two of them each have the prereq of "one Desert Wind Maneuver" the other doesn't (it was the first one I took so I could take the other two).

Now, upon reaching an even numbered level (4th, 6th etc) could I switch out the "no prereq maneuver" for something else and still keep the other two -since technically, each can be the prereq for the other?

J from Three Haligonians

 

[griff_goodbeard]

That is my understanding, and how it works at my table.

 

[Arkhandus]

You cannot use the old maneuver to qualify for the new one. It says you lose the old maneuver to learn the new one; you will not meet the prerequisites (if you're using the old maneuver as to meet one the prereqs) to learn the new maneuver. You are required to meet the prerequisites when you swap maneuvers, so I don't think it works.

If you knew Stone Bones and Mountain Hammer, you could not swap out Stone Bones for Elder Mountain Hammer later, for instance, unless you obtained some other Stone Dragon maneuver earlier (like Bonecrusher) to meet the prerequisite of 'two Stone Dragon maneuvers' at the time that you lose Stone Bones in the swap.

 

[Sound of Azure]

Since you'd still have the two Desert Wind Manoeuvres, you're covered.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Not sure what the book specifically says, but if this were allowed in this way it would be a big break form how other requirements work. I would tend not to allow it at my table. Yes, having to keep a low level maneuver would suck, but it would keep the progression nice and honest.

 

[Zurai]

Not sure what the book specifically says, but if this were allowed in this way it would be a big break form how other requirements work. I would tend not to allow it at my table. Yes, having to keep a low level maneuver would suck, but it would keep the progression nice and honest.

The book is designed around retraining low level maneuvers into high level maneuvers. Even the most prolific base class only learns a grand total of 25 maneuvers total - 7 of which would be restricted to 1st level maneuvers under your house rule. Crusaders get a total of 14 maneuvers, 5 of which would be eternally first level.

You'd be crippling characters permanently if you changed the rule like that. It's intended that characters can retrain lower level maneuvers into higher level maneuvers, assuming the pre-requisites are met.

It would also lead to the silliness of characters having more 9th level maneuvers than 2nd level ones. All 3 base classes would suffer from that.

 

[Nifft]

I am playing a swordsage right now and I have a question about his ability to change out old maneuvers.

I have three Desert Wind maneuvers right now. Two of them each have the prereq of "one Desert Wind Maneuver" the other doesn't (it was the first one I took so I could take the other two).

Now, upon reaching an even numbered level (4th, 6th etc) could I switch out the "no prereq maneuver" for something else and still keep the other two -since technically, each can be the prereq for the other?

Absolutely.

However, note that you do NOT need to "qualify" for maneuvers in order to Ready them, only to learn them. Once you have learned a maneuver, you know it forever, even if you retrain all prerequisites.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Dice4Hire]

The book is designed around retraining low level maneuvers into high level maneuvers. Even the most prolific base class only learns a grand total of 25 maneuvers total - 7 of which would be restricted to 1st level maneuvers under your house rule. Crusaders get a total of 14 maneuvers, 5 of which would be eternally first level.

You'd be crippling characters permanently if you changed the rule like that. It's intended that characters can retrain lower level maneuvers into higher level maneuvers, assuming the pre-requisites are met.

Not really. How many people take maneuvers from all seven school? No one. I think if you did an actual examination of how many manoevers are acquired and then exchanged, you would see that base classes end up with a lot of mid-level, and only a few high level.

How would my house rule change that? You just could not change ALL of them, you could still change all but one. Or all but one in each discipline.

Doing it the same way as other posters above is totally unbalancing, making getting 9th level manouvers in all your known disciplines easy as pie.

But if it works in your games, knock yourself out.

It would also lead to the silliness of characters having more 9th level maneuvers than 2nd level ones. All 3 base classes would suffer from that.

What do you mean here? This makes no sense.

As for my "House Rule" Can you point exactly to the page that says I am totally, absolutely wrong?

 

[Felnar]

dont stances count as maneuvers for prereqs?

 

[Ceska]

dont stances count as maneuvers for prereqs?

They do. ToB page 44.