Level Up (A5E) Voidrunner's codex - 'Always Prepared' Maneuver, is this a broken feature?

[thuter]

WHY?

What is the mechanical reason to set up a set of hoops for the Fireball spell or a level 5 cantrip but not Extra Attack?

I wouldn't know, in our home campaigns we waive this part always, since Readying spells is punishing enough with the loss of the spell slot even if you don't use the reaction. Though Extra Attack has limitations under most circumstances as well, because it only works during your turn.

I posit that it does, and it's just overlooked. It states "An Attack" as an example of a readied action. not "Extra Attack" or "The Attack Action" but "An Attack".

Not every class gains 'Extra Attack' and it is also not an action, so describing it as an example in the common ruleset would not be proper. It also specifically mentions the Dash action, leading me to believe you can indeed ready "named" actions. Examples are just that. The rules do not limit you to just those examples, by virtue of the words 'such as'. The Attack Action would have been a better example in my opinion, but I did not write the rules, and thus can only guess at intent. Perhaps this is due to how Opportunity Attacks are worded? (It also specifies a single melee attack, not the Attack Action.)

Note that the only reason this imbalance comes up, is because Always Prepared breaks the action economy. Under normal circumstances, you use your Action (and Reaction) to Ready. So while there is some benefit to be gained from 'cleverly' manipulating when your actions resolve in the turn order, you will sacrifice your Reaction to do so, and only act if your stated trigger occurs. You do not normally gain any action economy doing so. However, now that you can Ready as a Bonus Action using this maneuver, the cost downgrades from Action+Reaction, to Bonus Action+Reaction+2 Exertion Points. This is in certain situations a very good trade.

I do not necessarily agree that Spellcasters have to jump through a lot of hoops to make use of this though. Concentration sucks a bit, but if you plan your Ready action (and trigger) before you use your Action during your turn (as "during your turn" would be the only time a Fighter would have an advantage over casters due to Extra Attack), you will cast your readied spell and then just use your regular action to cast a spell normally as well, regardless of it needing concentration. It will matter potentially from the second turn onward.

Balance-wise, casting a spell is in many cases more effective than using the Attack Action, and that is also why I think in A5E martial classes gain powerful bonus actions and reactions to make more (or stronger) attacks. It was also the reason why so many casters multiclassed 2 levels of Fighter in O5E (also because of con save proficiency, Fighting Style and armor, of course, but those are all gained at level 1).

Granted you've found a clever way to view the rules but it does, when used in this manner, comes across as "clever manipulation of the rules" to give you a somewhat unexpected favourable outcome. These are edge cases that designers can't possibly foresee.

Agreed on both points.

 

[Steampunkette]

I do not necessarily agree that Spellcasters have to jump through a lot of hoops to make use of this though. Concentration sucks a bit, but if you plan your Ready action (and trigger) before you use your Action during your turn (as "during your turn" would be the only time a Fighter would have an advantage over casters due to Extra Attack), you will cast your readied spell and then just use your regular action to cast a spell normally as well, regardless of it needing concentration. It will matter potentially from the second turn onward.

Balance-wise, casting a spell is in many cases more effective than using the Attack Action, and that is also why I think in A5E martial classes gain powerful bonus actions and reactions to make more (or stronger) attacks. It was also the reason why so many casters multiclassed 2 levels of Fighter in O5E (also because of con save proficiency, Fighting Style and armor, of course, but those are all gained at level 1).

1) You precast the spell. So if you don't trigger your reaction you used the spell slot.
2) You cannot concentrate on anything else.
3) If your concentration is broken you lose the spell slot and the action and cannot use the reaction.

That's a LOT of additional scrutiny piled on. And you can do that with a Cantrip, too, which is meant to be roughly comparable to a weak fighter swinging up to four times. So while a Fireball typically has more impact on the battlefield, you're also getting a much bigger set of hoops to jump through than someone swinging once. EVEN for the Cantrip with the Concentration requirements.

To me, that says that even the Cantrip is "More Valuable" than the attack. That it has this extra hoop put over the top of it, even though it's worse than swinging a longsword four times for damage output.

That triggers my designer instincts to say that a readied attack is just one attack. No matter which initiative count it's on.

 

[thuter]

1) You precast the spell. So if you don't trigger your reaction you used the spell slot.
2) You cannot concentrate on anything else.
3) If your concentration is broken you lose the spell slot and the action and cannot use the reaction.

That's a LOT of additional scrutiny piled on. And you can do that with a Cantrip, too, which is meant to be roughly comparable to a weak fighter swinging up to four times. So while a Fireball typically has more impact on the battlefield, you're also getting a much bigger set of hoops to jump through than someone swinging once. EVEN for the Cantrip with the Concentration requirements.

To me, that says that even the Cantrip is "More Valuable" than the attack. That it has this extra hoop put over the top of it, even though it's worse than swinging a longsword four times for damage output.

That triggers my designer instincts to say that a readied attack is just one attack. No matter which initiative count it's on.

Out of turn, I agree. Using Always Prepared to cast 2 spells in your own turn, only point 2 remains. And that is ok, since you would only be able to concentrate on one spell anyway, and if you make that your readied one, there is no difference to using Action Surge.

Design-wise, I would argue the other way around: Why limit spellcasting (and Extra Attack for that matter) at all when using Ready? It is already a very underused action in my experience and the action cost is higher than just using your action. I get WotC was afraid of repeating the same caster-dominance they suffered in 3.5E, and thus added Concentration rules and some other limits, but the Ready limitations I just don't really understand.

 

[Steampunkette]

Out of turn, I agree. Using Always Prepared to cast 2 spells in your own turn, only point 2 remains. And that is ok, since you would only be able to concentrate on one spell anyway, and if you make that your readied one, there is no difference to using Action Surge.

There is no Action Surge in A5e for a reason.

Design-wise, I would argue the other way around: Why limit spellcasting (and Extra Attack for that matter) at all when using Ready? It is already a very underused action in my experience and the action cost is higher than just using your action. I get WotC was afraid of repeating the same caster-dominance they suffered in 3.5E, and thus added Concentration rules and some other limits, but the Ready limitations I just don't really understand.

The cool part of A5e is you can ask the designers. We all hang out on this forum.

Maybe it was just a thoughtless carryover from WotC's design... maybe not.

 

[lichmaster]

Regarding the use of this maneuver to get 2x Extra attacks in the acting character's turn for the price of action+bonus action+reaction+exertion cost, I'd say that it's not possible, simply out of balance issues.

The Haste spell (3rd level) allows to take one extra action but only to perform a single attack.
The balance issue shows immediately at level 5 (when both Extra Attack and Haste become available): one option would be both cheaper (2 exertion vs 1 level 3 spell slot) and more effective (2 additional attacks instead of only 1)
The cost of this maneuver can be brought down to 1 exertion via maneuver specialization (fighter) and eventually even to 0 (Master of combat). Albeit the latter only happens at level 20, the former would happen already at level 3.
So realistically, with 1 exertion and spending all action economy related resources, this fighter could do 4 attacks per round already at level 5, for only 1 exertion.

Also, there's no spell or feature of any level (that I know of) that allows this double extra attack to happen in A5E, and AFAIK Action Surge was removed exactly to avoid these kinds of shenaningans

So long story short, for me this is a clear no.

 

[thuter]

Regarding the use of this maneuver to get 2x Extra attacks in the acting character's turn for the price of action+bonus action+reaction+exertion cost, I'd say that it's not possible, simply out of balance issues.

I mean, it's not that unique actually. Reaction + BA + 2 Exertion can in many other cases lead to +2 attacks. There are plenty other maneuvers that let you make an additional attack as a reaction, and while bonus action attack manuevers are somewhat rarer, they are not unheard of. Also, Haste is a one minute duration spell that also has other benefits and does not require action investment after casting.

So realistically, with 1 exertion and spending all action economy related resources, this fighter could do 4 attacks per round already at level 5, for only 1 exertion.

They already can with just Two-Weapon fighting without spending any exertion, leaving their reaction for an AoO or any of the reaction attacks for a total of 5.

Making one more attack by virtue of Extra Attack is not the main problem of Always Prepared; it's that it breaks the action economy like never before, and does so with extreme versatility.