BoED -- Vow of Poverty

[brehobit]

Hi all,
Quick question. I'm looking at taking the vow of poverty for a sorc. that I play. He does have a few items at the moment (a minor healing device and a masterwork guitar) but losing them is no big deal.

What does consern me are:

• He has always riden a mule. Same mule since level one. I guess I could grab a level of druid to make him an animal companion but...
• He has often taken money to give to others. (He is a level 1 priest and takes donations for the poor fairly often.) Can he carry money that is meant for donation?
• He currently donates most of what he gets from adventuring to the poor (the rest he drinks/smokes, this will be a big life change) if the above answer is "no" (which seems to be the literal reading of the feat) how can he donate that which he has "earned".
• Finally, how the heck could such a character traverse the desert alone (something this character does do fairly often). Is he allowed to keep more than a day's supply of water on him? He can cast create water, so it isn't really the end of the world but it does seem wacky)

Thoughts? Have the authors addressed any of these general ideas?

Just got the book. Like it a lot so far!

 

[chris7476]

My advice? Don't take VoP.

Aside from it being cheesy, it's a role-playing and campaign nightmare. I was in a group with a VoP and monk and we had to jump through flaming hoops to justify what he could take, pick up, touch, etc. It was just annoying and offered extremely little return in the role-playing department.

 

[ellestar]

My advice? Don't take VoP.

Aside from it being cheesy, it's a role-playing and campaign nightmare. I was in a group with a VoP and monk and we had to jump through flaming hoops to justify what he could take, pick up, touch, etc. It was just annoying and offered extremely little return in the role-playing department.

I disagree. I am currently playing a sorcerer with VoP, and I find it to be very cool. There haven't really been any flaming hoops to jump through, as there doesn't really need to be any justification to what he can take.

It's simple: he cannot own more than a days worth of food/water, his robe and a quarterstaff. Note: own. This does not imply that he cannot even touch or pick up other things. If he doesn't intend to own the items he picks up, but rather donate them when the time is right, and obviously does not attempt to use them or gain any advantage from them in any way, it won't be a problem.

About the mule; that's a tough one. The druid option is always there, but it doesn't really make any sense from a roleplaying perspective. I would try to talk to your DM about it, maybe getting to keep the mule as a partner, by giving up a special ability gained from VoP. Only the mule though (as I think it kinda fits the image of an ascethic character to have a mule as a partner too), nothing else.

 

[CalrinAlshaw]

I'll say this, if you roleplay your mule a bunch, name it, talk to yet, etc, and generally have some fun with it, I'd allow you to keep it.

A character with the Vow of Poverty is allowed to take a share of the treasure, as long as he intends to donate it to a charitable cause ASAP.

Level 2 you gain "Endure Elements".
Level 5 you gain "Sustenance" which you don't need water/food. That makes you a perfect desert-dweller. Until then, you may need to use create water spell and beg food from other party members, it's humbling, I know.

Calrin Alshaw

 

[Artoomis]

First, let's be very clear that he cannot own anything other than those few liosted items. He also cannot even use any magic items, other than potions given to him to use (liek a healing potion).

Second, no, he cannot keep the mule. He must give it away. However, there is nothing saying that, if it really works for the game, that whoever he gives it to cannot say "You ride him for me, please." Of course, he'd have to give somewhat regular reports back to the true owner, and it would truly be irreplaceable.

History is rife with folks who have made holy vows of one kind of another and then get, at times, very technical with them to accomplish something like the above. I think it's fine if not done all the time, or if it fits in with teh way the DM and players play the game.

Third, sure he can carry money to give away. He cannot, however, use any of that money other than for charity.

A VoPo character can easily survive the crossing a desert depending upon his level. If you do it too early without support, you die. Later on, you can survive in the desert all by yourself with no worries for the heat or cold (at night) or worries about food or drink.

I am running a high-level VoPo cleric and have no troubles at all with the "poverty" part of it. Of course I took the "Eschew Material Components" feat, and that helps a lot.

 

[RingXero]

A character with the Vow of Poverty is allowed to take a share of the treasure, as long as he intends to donate it to a charitable cause ASAP.
Calrin Alshaw

I would point out that someone who has the Vow of Poverty must take an equal share of all treasure for donation purposes, they point out that the party should not gain in any way from a VoP characters' inability to own items, and that a VoP character has to insist on an equal share, either in items and/or coins. As a DM I would also be wary of two things, the 'dumping ground' mentality of items, the VoP character should try and get items to donate that are good, not just the junk that the party doesn't need. The other would be a 'warehouse' mentality, where the VoP character claims items for donation but waits till he can get back to 'base camp' to unload, and the other party members trade items that are needed for momentary gain for gp value.

Just some thoughts, when roleplayed well the VoP is a great addition to a game.


RX

 

[Thanee]

Erm, a VoP cleric cannot have a holy symbol, since the cheapest is 1gp normally.

And what does Eschew Materials do for a cleric, anyways?

They don't need material components, or do they ('cept the costly ones, which the feat doesn't apply to, anyways)?

Aside from it being cheesy, it's a role-playing and campaign nightmare. I was in a group with a VoP and monk and we had to jump through flaming hoops to justify what he could take, pick up, touch, etc. It was just annoying and offered extremely little return in the role-playing department.

Yes, if you only get it because of the benefits (this certainly sounds like it), and not with the primary intent to use it as a roleplaying opportunity (with the benefits being a bonus), then it's best adviseable to not use it at all.

I don't see where the big problem is, however. VoP is hardly "cheesy", in most average wealth campaigns, it's more of a disadvantage than anything else.

Also, you can pick up and touch just about anything. You just cannot own or use it, but you could carry it just fine (i.e. collecting treasure to donate later).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Elric]

I don't remember their stats offhand, but I don't think that a mule will overpower a sorceror. Unless it's an Awakened Saintly Mule with levels of Paladin.

Some of the VoP restrictions do get pretty cumbersome. Our party was trying to capture a blinking vampire and even though I was the best option to stick our dimensional shackles on it, I was reduced to carrying the shackles to toss to another party member (who was in disguise at the time). But a mule seems safe enough.

Compared to printed DMG treasure, a VoP character will have a little more in bonuses than can be obtained at lowest marginal cost but lacks the versatility of being able to get powers no there (an empower rod, for example). For people who aren't sure what power level it will be, I'd recommend trying it before passing judgment.

 

[danielinthewolvesden]

Yes, even tho it is not listed, a cleric could have a simple wooden Holy symbol. It is within the spirit of the class.

 

[Pax]

Hi all,
Quick question. I'm looking at taking the vow of poverty for a sorc. that I play. He does have a few items at the moment (a minor healing device and a masterwork guitar) but losing them is no big deal.

What does consern me are:

• He has always riden a mule. Same mule since level one. I guess I could grab a level of druid to make him an animal companion but...

Give it away; sorry, but other than becoming a Druid, you're not going to be able to keepthe mule AND adhere to the Vow. OTOH, if it belongs to someone else, and you simply look after it in exchange for being able to still ride it (while it carries some more food for the whole party, maybe) - use is okay, it's ownership that matters.

• He has often taken money to give to others. (He is a level 1 priest and takes donations for the poor fairly often.) Can he carry money that is meant for donation?

Sure. In fact, he should INSIST that his entire "share" of ALL loot be donated - either by him, or by the party as a whole. Just because YOU've sworn to a life of poverty, doesn't mean the other PC's get to enrich themselves by splitting up YOUR nominal share of the loot.

• Finally, how the heck could such a character traverse the desert alone (something this character does do fairly often). Is he allowed to keep more than a day's supply of water on him? He can cast create water, so it isn't really the end of the world but it does seem wacky)

Nope, one day's food and water. Then again, at higher levels, you stop needing to eat or drink, so that drawback becomes moot.