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BOEF no longer D20! Now it's OGL!
- Thread starter Claude Raines
- Start date
Wikidogre
First Post
Djeta Thernadier said:
Nothing at all i find that book very useful in my games, i only found it amusing that they did publish slightly mature material, some funny and amusing...but slightly mature, and got offended when people got up in arms about it. I also find it funny that all of a sudden, due to backlash from that book, they no have too come forth with this license change in response to an obvious corporate decision. Because hay it does not matter what the fans think. Thats all i apologize if i errked anyone that was not the intent, it was a quick rant and i am at work and the boss was coming.
Besides i personally think Rpgs should target everyone, if there is something mature, then you need to put the responsability upon the stores selling the material, to make sure it does not end up in the wrong hands.
Ok i am done, need to write more code.....
Djeta Thernadier
First Post
Wikidogre said:Nothing at all i find that book very useful in my games, i only found it amusing that they did publish slightly mature material, some funny and amusing...but slightly mature, and got offended when people got up in arms about it. I also find it funny that all of a sudden, due to backlash from that book, they no have too come forth with this license change in response to an obvious corporate decision. Because hay it does not matter what the fans think. Thats all i apologize if i errked anyone that was not the intent, it was a quick rant and i am at work and the boss was coming.
Besides i personally think Rpgs should target everyone, if there is something mature, then you need to put the responsability upon the stores selling the material, to make sure it does not end up in the wrong hands.
Ok i am done, need to write more code.....
I wasn't offended at all. Just curious as to if there were specific things that people didn't like or if it was just the same "we don't like it or want our kids reading it therefore it shouldn't exist" mentality that causes people to ban books or call things indecent.
I agree, they should target everyone and that publishers should be allowed to publish whatever they want without fear of people getting offended and then leave it up to the book retailer to decide if they wish to carry it and how they wish to present it in their shop, and up to the parents to monitor what their children are looking at.
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Wombat
First Post
Does it really matter to most of us, the difference between being a D20 supplement and an OGL supplement? I am pretty sure it doesn't. The differences, for gamers, not for legal experts, is so petty as to be ignorable.
The book will be published, that is all that really matters. For all the people looking forward to its publication, I hope it exceeds your desires.
For my own part, however, it will join the grand pile of games, including the new miniatures rules, that might be glanced at briefly but never purchased, due to lack of need and desire.
The book will be published, that is all that really matters. For all the people looking forward to its publication, I hope it exceeds your desires.
For my own part, however, it will join the grand pile of games, including the new miniatures rules, that might be glanced at briefly but never purchased, due to lack of need and desire.
Sirius_Black
First Post
kkoie said:
Actually I think when edition 3.75 comes out for D&D, the new quality standards will force all demons to be renamed "those creatures with vile purposes." No doubt, right beneath this new label will be the way to combat said creatures, "those creatures with vile purposes are succeptible to the group hug known for its effectiveness to slay the most vile creature."
I think the art will feature little velcro strips covering the vile creatures from head to toe to shield any unsuspecting innocent eyes (like the 40 year old virgin who still watches Friends every week and thinks Matt LeBlanc is a comic genius), but at the same time allow their adult audiences access to the vile drawings with just a simple pull.
Boy, I can't wait......saving away my $$ now, bring on 3.75.
darkbard
Legend
the more i think on the subject, the clearer it becomes to me that a. valterra is first and foremost a lawyer and businessman ... and one who clearly understands marketing, advertising and creating a stir. since mr. valterra knew that the changes to the d20 license were in store and would jeopardize his product well in advance and yet proceeded to create a ton of hype and controversy [and free advertising] surrounding his product as d20 before switching to the ogl, i can only assume that this was a calculated strategy.
think about it. how many posts have you read where someone was outraged by the wotc licensing change and declared they would now go out and buy a copy of the book of erotic fantasy just to spite wotc?!? people who would otherwise have little to no interest in this product are now viewing it as a symbol of free speech, as the little guy versus the corporate monolith.
this is shrewd, calculated business strategy. create a storm of controversy around your product that translates into huge amounts of free advertising. associate your product in the minds of its audience with d&d by announcing it as d20 and even going so far as to produce a limited [1000 copies] run of the preview edition so word spreads further and people have a stronger impression of d&d compatibility [and how many of those copies are still sitting around at distributors or retailers. those of you who think that valar is incurring some great expense in the destruction of these preview copies are kidding yourselves].
then switch to the ogl; thus you are no longer bound by the "impending" license change, though as a tradeoff you can no longer prominently and explicitly associate the game with d&d ... but the rub is that you no longer need to do so. most of the target audience is already aware of the product's compatibility ... and you've gained a truckload of new consumers who now view your company as a sympathetic cause. shrewd strategy, indeed!
think about it. how many posts have you read where someone was outraged by the wotc licensing change and declared they would now go out and buy a copy of the book of erotic fantasy just to spite wotc?!? people who would otherwise have little to no interest in this product are now viewing it as a symbol of free speech, as the little guy versus the corporate monolith.
this is shrewd, calculated business strategy. create a storm of controversy around your product that translates into huge amounts of free advertising. associate your product in the minds of its audience with d&d by announcing it as d20 and even going so far as to produce a limited [1000 copies] run of the preview edition so word spreads further and people have a stronger impression of d&d compatibility [and how many of those copies are still sitting around at distributors or retailers. those of you who think that valar is incurring some great expense in the destruction of these preview copies are kidding yourselves].
then switch to the ogl; thus you are no longer bound by the "impending" license change, though as a tradeoff you can no longer prominently and explicitly associate the game with d&d ... but the rub is that you no longer need to do so. most of the target audience is already aware of the product's compatibility ... and you've gained a truckload of new consumers who now view your company as a sympathetic cause. shrewd strategy, indeed!
Holy Bovine
First Post
Djeta Thernadier said:
Well a few things (from memory only I don't have my book in front of me)
picture of an angel being sacrificed with much blood
the 'nercophiic' feat
nipple rings
nipples (lots of nipples
)writing about evil PCs/campaigns (some people think they should be against the law apparently
)Those are the things I can remember - I'm sure there were lots more. I have found the BoVD, despite my early misgivings, to be an excellent book just for the new ideas it contained (I never would have thought up something like the Cancer Mage for example).
But, but, people shouldn't have choice or free-will! Why, that would be freedom of expression! Ah! Ah! Run for the hills - we have a free thinker amoungst us!
Seriously I have found that there is a vocal minority who want everything even remotely offensive removed from sight. i didn't find the BoVD offensive (a bit juvenile but not offensive) but there was a very vocal minority that did. I feel that this change to the STL is quite possibly because of that vocal minority
Dr. Harry
First Post
Wikidogre said:All i have too say about the whole D20 license change, too rule out mature material, is....This is coming from the company that released and defended the BOVD! hmmm interesting too me, thats all.
WotC, as the ones who own the D&D system, and have the largest economic stake in the present and future viability of D&D have brought D&D in line with their other licenced properties. This does not mean that WotC has reservations about material "outside the lines", per se, but that since material that plays fast and loose with the lines has the greatest chance of triggering a reaction that does harm to the D&D brand, and financial harm to WotC. If anyone is going to take the risk, it should be WotC themselves.
P.S. Realizing that people posting write hastily, I don't it's necessarily fair or helpful to critque the grammar of posts (such as 'too' where 'to' should be - though misspelling 'deity' as 'diety' does admittedly bug me since it seems to be common), but in a press release using "affective" when it should be "effective" is just plain sloppy. It's almost enough to make me believe that the original press release was a smeg-up, and not crafted specifically as a publicity stunt to be retreated from later ... no, actually, it is not enough to make me change that thought.
Harry L
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Kanegrundar
Explorer
Alright, I'll throw my 2 cents into the ring.
I think the change in the lisence is hokey. Like many others have stated before WotC looks very hypocritical with this move after putting out BoVD. It's a shame that Valar had to be the first burned by this, but it was bound to happen sooner or later from the sounds of it.
However, I still see WotC wanting to distance itself from products like BoEF. Let's face it, violence and demonology are frowned upon in books, but sex is taboo in everything but fringe society (in the States at least). Nothing is worse than being seen as obsessed with sex. Bringing that kind of product in with the rest of the D20 products could give WotC (more like Hasbro) much unwanted bad press. Changing the lisence seems like a step away from sexually driven products.
All in all, I think very little will change from all of this. The game is violent at its core, so violence and death will always be prominent in a huge majority of D20 products. I personally won't be picking up the BoEF since frankly sex if it ever comes up is always off camera and implied IMCs. I have no need for it, but I can see where some groups would get a lot of milage out it. I wish Valterra and Valar all the best on this book.
Kane
I think the change in the lisence is hokey. Like many others have stated before WotC looks very hypocritical with this move after putting out BoVD. It's a shame that Valar had to be the first burned by this, but it was bound to happen sooner or later from the sounds of it.
However, I still see WotC wanting to distance itself from products like BoEF. Let's face it, violence and demonology are frowned upon in books, but sex is taboo in everything but fringe society (in the States at least). Nothing is worse than being seen as obsessed with sex. Bringing that kind of product in with the rest of the D20 products could give WotC (more like Hasbro) much unwanted bad press. Changing the lisence seems like a step away from sexually driven products.
All in all, I think very little will change from all of this. The game is violent at its core, so violence and death will always be prominent in a huge majority of D20 products. I personally won't be picking up the BoEF since frankly sex if it ever comes up is always off camera and implied IMCs. I have no need for it, but I can see where some groups would get a lot of milage out it. I wish Valterra and Valar all the best on this book.
Kane
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