BOEF no longer D20! Now it's OGL!

[Djeta Thernadier]

Would beating the deadline have served any purpose for Valar? Couldn't WOTC simply retroactively revoke the license and force destruction/recall of current stock? Seems like it would have been riskier and more potentially much more expensive to attempt publication under the d20STL, given AV's knowledge of the changes that were coming. Or am I wrong about how retroactive changes work?

I certainly would not *not* buy something just because it doesn't have the D20 label on it, this book included, if it was a good role-playing supplement and interesting to me.

I do hope that WOTC does not force destruction of all current stock, as that would be a terrible waste of both paper, but also of the time and effort put forth by the people who made this product before they were aware of any problem. If WoTC didn't want this book published, they should have forced them to stop production before the book was produced and money and time was spent. Whatever you think of the subject matter, some people did spend time and money putting this book together. WoTC have a right to decide what they want published under their name, however, if they are going to retroactively deem things indecent, how far back will it go? How many products will be taken off the shelves?

As for Community Standards of decency...I shudder to think what this means. (See the the thread on banned books week...) But It is their right as a private company. I just think that it's silly. Are they trying to get away from the stereotype that D&D is violent, satanic and filled with scantily clad nymphs running around? Because, I honestly believe that the people who are THAT convinced that D&D is "dangerous for children" are going to think that, regardless of changing anything.

I think that the very fact that the book is called "The Book of Erotic Fantasy" should be enough of an indicator to parents that this is an "adult" role playing supplement and that they should not purchase it for their minor. And adults can make the choice themselves, without a "community standard" making the choice for them.

I think the vast majority of people who would be interested in this book are people who wish to incorporate more intimate relationships between characters in their games. Or people who have an interest in erotic writing and/ or art.

I have an interest in both the genre and having these elements in my games. I am certainly not some sort of sleazy, creepy person who should be challenged for "indecency".

*shrugs* what can you do?

 

[F5]

Would beating the deadline have served any purpose for Valar? Couldn't WOTC simply retroactively revoke the license and force destruction/recall of current stock? Seems like it would have been riskier and more potentially much more expensive to attempt publication under the d20STL, given AV's knowledge of the changes that were coming. Or am I wrong about how retroactive changes work?

Speaking as a reasonably-well-informed layman, and not a copyright lawyer, I don't think you're wrong about how the licenses work. According to the license agreement, you have to destroy all existing stock, and have everything pulled from distributor's shelves. And eat the cost yourself, presumably.

Whether they can force distributors to destroy books on the shelves is probably on shaky legal ground, and a determined company could probably take them to court over that issue. But, it's a moot point, because there isn't anybody out there who has the money to go toe-to-toe with hasbro's lawyers, so it would never go to court in the first place. You'd lose more $$$ just by fighting the fight than you would by cooperating.

[begin idle speculation]Valar is a small company, without a ton of start-up money. They would have been dead in the water if they had to pull all their books with the D20 license after they went to the printer. WotC knew what Valtarra and company were planning to publish, and his view of the "community standards" that were in the works while he was there. Isn't it possible that by putting out the changes to the d20 STL before the BoEF went to print, that someone at Wizards did Valar a huge favor? Rather than the timing of the license change being a spiteful act to "get" one company, which is how many people seem to view it, maybe someone at Wizards actually saved Valar from the legal action that they would have been forced to take? If they were really out to get him, they would have let the book get printed and THEN go after him, when he was the most vulnerable. Or not. [end idle speculation]

 

[Wikidogre]

All i have too say about the whole D20 license change, too rule out mature material, is....This is coming from the company that released and defended the BOVD! hmmm interesting too me, thats all.

 

[reddist]

Well, one thing it means is that I now regret not picking up one of the "preview" booklets they were selling at Gen Con. A Valar Project product with the D20 logo on it? Those just became collector's items.

-Reddist

 

[Psion]

All i have too say about the whole D20 license change, too rule out mature material, is....This is coming from the company that released and defended the BOVD! hmmm interesting too me, thats all.

Observe the "category manager" line in your BoVD.

 

[Djeta Thernadier]

All i have too say about the whole D20 license change, too rule out mature material, is....This is coming from the company that released and defended the BOVD! hmmm interesting too me, thats all.

What was so bad about the BoVD anyway? I don't own it, but I've looked at it extensively in stores and see nothing really wrong with it. I'm seriously curious as to what people were up in arms about over it...

 

[kkoie]

Here we go again, the next step for the usual gang of idiots is to change the names of alldemons to tantari etc etc. Then they will fire all their artists and do all their books in really godawful blue ink by the worst artists in the industry.

 

[Henry]

Blue Woodcuts! WOOHOO!

WotC will do what WotC will do. I hereby no longer make any claims as to their doom, their health, or their prosperity - 'cause I honestly don't know, any longer.

 

[F5]

What was so bad about the BoVD anyway? I don't own it, but I've looked at it extensively in stores and see nothing really wrong with it. I'm seriously curious as to what people were up in arms about over it...

Do you mean you've looked at the GenCon preview in stores? I didn't think the actual book was out yet. If it is, my <idle specilation> bit in my last post is pretty much definitely wrong...

I can't imagine anybody being taken surprise by this book. If you're not offended by the concept, you won't be offended by the contents, and if you are offended by the concept, the actual contents don't really matter, because you won't buy it anyway. But you definitely know what you're getting into right off the bat.

 

[Umbran]

Would beating the deadline have served any purpose for Valar? Couldn't WOTC simply retroactively revoke the license and force destruction/recall of current stock? Seems like it would have been riskier and more potentially much more expensive to attempt publication under the d20STL, given AV's knowledge of the changes that were coming. Or am I wrong about how retroactive changes work?

I'm going to approach this in reverse order...

I don't think you're wrong about how the changes work. If the BoEF had come out before the changes, it seems that WotC could have ordered a destruction of the product.

So, would beating the deadline have served any purpose for Valar? Perhaps. The stuff I've seen coming from AV about this suggest that economic welfare of Valar was secondary to the strategic and moral/ethical purposes.

Folks around here like to paint a picture of WotC as evil. However, it seems to me that the evidence shows them having a pretty darned good record of working with third party publisers in general, and their former employees especially.

So, given that history of playing nice, we must ask - if AV had gotten the BoEF out before the license change, would WotC have put out the changes and then ordered the product's destruction, knowing that Valar is small and new and would take a big hit from the loss? Maybe, and maybe not.

Fan PR isn't really a big deal, as only a few of the millions of gamers out there would hear about this. But they'd be taking action against a former employee. Retroactive action, which is kind of petty. That can't feel really great to them personally, and it would harm their ability to deal with other third-party people in the future (because they'd forevermore be worried about license issues), which doesn't seem to be in WotC's interest.

So, AV dislikes the changes with a passion. He tries and fails to stop them fro the inside, and finally decides to try to say, "Fine, if you want to implement these changes, you'll have to go through me to do it."

If he had managed to get the book out early, he couldn't lose the whole deal. If WotC backs down, he wins on all fronts. He keeps the d20 logo on his product, and effectively weakens WotC's clout concerning enforcing that part of the license. If WotC doesn't back down, AV takes an economic hit, but WotC loses face as a company that plays nice with others. That scores at least a moral victory for AV.

This all doesn't work if he doesn't get the book out early enough. If the license changes come out first, then WotC is on the moral high-ground of having the policy there in plain view before the BoEF's release.