D&D (2024) Bonus languages in One D&D backgrounds goes contrary to their other goals

[Cadence]

Sylvan is a regional language. That region is "the Feywild and deep forests."

I'm not really seeing the big distinction here.

Hmmm. :::: It seemed obvious to me that the deep forests in mythic China might be really different culturally than than the deep forests in mythic Germany than the deep forests in mythic Africa. And that really different places might have really different languages.

 

[Haplo781]

Right, I’m saying make Elvish a regional language too (and change the name because elf is a race, not a region).

So, take Elvish, change the name, and divorce it from elves? And assign it to a region - what region? A specific geographical area? That's going to be setting-specific thing. A general type of environment? That's already covered by existing languages.

 

[Charlaquin]

So, take Elvish, change the name, and divorce it from elves? And assign it to a region - what region? A specific geographical area? That's going to be setting-specific thing.

Yes, this does summarize the problem with languages in D&D.

A general type of environment? That's already covered by existing languages.

Huh?

 

[Ondath]

Right, but the result was that nobody customized backgrounds because it felt like cheating.

Maybe. In my experience, it's just that players don't bother designing a background from scratch, and if that's the real reason, then One D&D's guidelines on designing your own background will also be ignored in favour of people selecting one of the premade ones.

I mean, they always were a gamist construct. I guess if you don’t like that fact being transparent that’s unfortunate for you. Personally, I think transparency of design is always a good thing.

Well, that's not true. Starting equipment is gamist to some extent in 5E (every class is given the bare minimum they need to go out adventuring), but older editions could have a simulationist approach to this: I recall each class in 3.5 getting a different amount of starting gold to reflect their social class, and I liked that. 5E supported this playstyle somewhat, but saying everyone gets 50 gp makes that harder.

I think this push towards standardisation indicates a return to 4E-style unabashed gamism that completely abandons any simulationist pretenses. Maybe the game's demographics have shifted enough so that this won't crash the game like it did in 2008, but it's contrary to my tastes for sure.

 

[Cadence]

Giving the sample backgrounds names makes it easier for the player who just wants to pick a sample background and go to decide which one they want. They just choose based on which name sounds closest to what they envision for their character. This just happened a week ago, I was helping a friend make a character for an upcoming Witchlight game we’re both going to play in. She just had me read off the names of the backgrounds in the PHB, said, “Entertainer sounds close enough,” and then had me tell her what stuff she got from it.

You could put in some tables for rolling a random background. That might appeal to some more old-school players. I don’t think it would appeal to most new players these days. Going back to my example of the friend I just helped make a character, she insisted on making her own character; she thought using a pre-generated one would suck the fun out of it, because it wouldn’t feel like “hers,” and I have no doubt a random one wouldn’t have either. But, she didn’t really do what I would normally think of as “making a character.” She just picked things she thought sounded cool - fairy, sorcerer, entertainer - and had me tell her what to write down on the sheet. That’s how casual players are.

Now I'm wondering about something like a questionnaire ap/web-page that asks folks to pick the word or idea that most describes their character, and then spits one out. (Just 5 questions with 5 answers is like 3,125 different characters, 6 questions with 6 answers each is almost 50,000).

What do you picture for your characters home - show picture of plains/islands/swamp/mountains/forests
How do you picture your characters early home life - show 10 pictures of different wealth and occupations
etc...

Would that have been any benefit at all for her? Would it seem too cheesy?

 

[Charlaquin]

Now I'm wondering about something like a questionnaire ap/web-page that asks folks to pick the word or idea that most describes their character, and then spits one out. (Just 5 questions with 5 answers is like 3,125 different characters, 6 questions with 6 answers each is almost 50,000).

What do you picture for your characters home - show picture of plains/islands/swamp/mountains/forests
How do you picture your characters early home life - show 10 pictures of different wealth and occupations
etc...

Would that have been any benefit at all for her? Would it seem too cheesy?

I would guess too cheesy, but I’d have to ask. My gut feeling is that it would just feel like a personality quiz instead of making a character for a game.

 

[Cadence]

I would guess too cheesy, but I’d have to ask. My gut feeling is that it would just feel like a personality quiz instead of making a character for a game.

I was thinking it might. But the actual process doesn't feel that much different to me than picking the things with names that sound good (if they aren't looking at what those names give).

 

[Lanefan]

Lanefan my dude, we have been knocking about this forum for a long time and your campaign is a pretty unique thing. One thing it is not, is a template for a commercial game.

Oh?

Whyever not?

 

[Charlaquin]

I was thinking it might. But the actual process doesn't feel that much different to me than picking the things with names that sound good (if they aren't looking at what those names give).

Yeah, it’s weird to me too. Personally, I can’t imagine ever wanting to use a sample background. I want to understand the game system and have control over all of my character choices within it (which is why custom backgrounds as default appeals to me.) But I’m a huge nerd. As D&D gets bigger, it needs to become more accessible to normies who can’t be arsed what a proficiency bonus is, they just want to know if they can be a cat-person who grew up on the streets and learned how to cast spells from a genie they found in a bottle they stole from their local pawn shop. Or whatever.

 

[Cadence]

Yeah, it’s weird to me too. Personally, I can’t imagine ever wanting to use a sample background. I want to understand the game system and have control over all of my character choices within it (which is why custom backgrounds as default appeals to me.) But I’m a huge nerd. As D&D gets bigger, it needs to become more accessible to normies who can’t be arsed what a proficiency bonus is, they just want to know if they can be a cat-person who grew up on the streets and learned how to cast spells from a genie they found in a bottle they stole from their local pawn shop. Or whatever.

Maybe there's a suite of tools that could do it and give most people something to get a character up and running...

• Old school gamer type
• Personality test type
• Flow chart
• Chunks of things like the current playtest looks

etc...