Book of Erotic Fantasy previewed at GenCon
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hunter1828
Butte Hole Surfer
Aeolius said:
It really bothers me when people assume any type of bondage play is vile and evil. Ever seen fuzzy handcuffs? Ever had a girlfriend/wife hold your hands behind your back? It can be done lightly, and doesn't have anything to do with violence, evil, vileness or wanting to hurt people. It's about the tease and about control (for both parties). Yes, some take it to extremes, as people do in everything. But don't judge the majority by the few.
hunter1828
kkoie
First Post
While I admit that the art in the preview certainly was jarring and was ment to instigate a responce, I myself didn't have a problem with it. I think perhapes because it was photography, rather than a more abstract medium, like paint, drawing, or what have you, that some found it more uncomfortable. I would be willing to bet that if they had depicted the exact images, only had painted them with oil or acrylics, rather than use photography, a significantly less number of people would have disliked it.
I think perhapes the problem isn't so much the content of the photographs, but that they look too real. An example of this can be seen from a friend of mine when he attended an FX workshop that lasted 6 weeks in toronto. One of the professors had worked on a film where he had to simulate dead infants for a movie (don't ask me what film because it's been almost 10 years and I don't even remember if my friend ever mentioned the name). So the prof made the artificial infants like he does any FX using their special foam that they fire similar to pottery, and painted it rather realisticly. They covered it with the appropriate amount of red goo etc etc, and the film creaters filmed it, and showed their movie to test audiences. Well the test audiences reacted with absolute hostility to the movie and their producers. Apparently the prof had done such a good job on the infants that they looked too real! So they had to go back, and create more infants, only this time they made them look more fake, on purpose, for the audiences benefit.
My point of course being, that perhapes the artists should consider doing a mix of photography and other medium, not using photography on the pieces that may be considered too violent.
I think perhapes the problem isn't so much the content of the photographs, but that they look too real. An example of this can be seen from a friend of mine when he attended an FX workshop that lasted 6 weeks in toronto. One of the professors had worked on a film where he had to simulate dead infants for a movie (don't ask me what film because it's been almost 10 years and I don't even remember if my friend ever mentioned the name). So the prof made the artificial infants like he does any FX using their special foam that they fire similar to pottery, and painted it rather realisticly. They covered it with the appropriate amount of red goo etc etc, and the film creaters filmed it, and showed their movie to test audiences. Well the test audiences reacted with absolute hostility to the movie and their producers. Apparently the prof had done such a good job on the infants that they looked too real! So they had to go back, and create more infants, only this time they made them look more fake, on purpose, for the audiences benefit.
My point of course being, that perhapes the artists should consider doing a mix of photography and other medium, not using photography on the pieces that may be considered too violent.
hunter1828
Butte Hole Surfer
All of the images in the BoEF are digitally manipulated, so they have been altered. Things have been added, subtracted, enhanced, disguised, etc. The final images we see for the BoEF are notHypnox's photos, they are photos shot by Hypnox then digitally changed by a host of talented photomanip artists.
However, I do agree (and stated so in an earlier post) that had the images been exactly the same, but perhaps paintings by Brom instead of photos by Hypnox, nowhere near as many folks would be as disturbed.
hunter1828
However, I do agree (and stated so in an earlier post) that had the images been exactly the same, but perhaps paintings by Brom instead of photos by Hypnox, nowhere near as many folks would be as disturbed.
hunter1828
Shadowdancer
First Post
Angcuru said:
There is more to the book than that. I'm not even sure if those types of rules are even included.
That's the same sort of narrow-mindedness that got Mr. Chick a bad reputation around these parts.
I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
Meh. The rules from what I've read seem interesting and usable (saw the Vestal Virgin PrC, and I've considered adding it to my campaign). The pictures from what I've seen (which has been just the website) are not too shabby, and certainly a very interesting way of doing art. It might be a bit much to try to do both at once, but not bad.
What killed me, what really made me decline the book, was the darnable writing. I mean, read the flavor text for the Fallen Seraph. Seriously. It reads like a bad rommance novel. Cliche, stereotyped, lonely-housewife-style porno.
IF they ditched the flavor altogether, or at least wrote it better, I would downright like the thing. I won't get it, but I'm sure it'd be an interesting addition and worthy, too. If it weren't for that thrice-cursed flavor text. Like they can't write a 'gettin' it on' scene any better than a book in pink frills with Fabio on the inside flap?
The pictures, though, I'm liking more and more, even for a product that wasn't like this. And Valar in general I'm liking as a wonderfully evocative designer. I mean, I'd be darn-near honored to have some of that stuff on my shelf.
....if it wasn't for the snuff level of writing.
What killed me, what really made me decline the book, was the darnable writing. I mean, read the flavor text for the Fallen Seraph. Seriously. It reads like a bad rommance novel. Cliche, stereotyped, lonely-housewife-style porno.
IF they ditched the flavor altogether, or at least wrote it better, I would downright like the thing. I won't get it, but I'm sure it'd be an interesting addition and worthy, too. If it weren't for that thrice-cursed flavor text. Like they can't write a 'gettin' it on' scene any better than a book in pink frills with Fabio on the inside flap?
The pictures, though, I'm liking more and more, even for a product that wasn't like this. And Valar in general I'm liking as a wonderfully evocative designer. I mean, I'd be darn-near honored to have some of that stuff on my shelf.
....if it wasn't for the snuff level of writing.
hellbender
First Post
Sirius_Black said:
Kicking yourself yet?
No, I'm not being disingenuous. I truly wanted to hear your explanation for gleefully roleplaying murder and yet being repulsed by mere photographs. Your explanation was fascinating to say the least.
I think we are just going to have state that we see things a bit differently. While I did not get to see yet the BOEF preview you did, I have viewed images and preview material posted on Valar's website. Nothing I have seen there comes close to the descriptions you stated in your second paragraph of the above quote. In fact, the way you describe the images make it sound like they had no correlation at all to the book's title, "Erotic Fantasy" and were simply random images of violence involving females. I must say that is not what I have heard from others who have viewed the preview book. Regardless, each person is entitled to view things differently and I certainly appreciating you taking the time to reply to my posts.
Your reply in fact brought to mind an encounter I had when the Book of Vile Darkness came out (apologies to Hunter1828 who will no doubt have read this twice now)
Back then, I got told by a game store owner that she refused to stock the Book of Vile Darkness because it had rape in it and rape was disgusting and not what she wanted in her store because she had been trying to teach for 20 years that gaming wasn't evil and this book was going to bring about basically the fall of humanity.
Guess what book was in my hands in her store as she ranted about this?
Green Ronin's Assassin Handbook.
Rape is bad, but cold blooded murder gets a thumbs up from her when it comes to products in her store. Ahh, people and their hypocrisyI love it, simply love it.
I think you have zero knowledge of what you are talking about. Ever seen anyone die? In real life? I have, from babies to adults, from accidents to cold murder. Ever met any rape victims? I have worked with them at the YWCA and known several women who were victims of rape outside of the Y. Let me tell you, roleplaying murder is NOTHING like roleplaying rape, they cannot be, for they are very different in the real world. Both are violent acts against people, one terminal, the other leaving the victim with permanent mental scars. Killing something is much more merciful that screwing it up for life. Death, in the backs of our minds, is inevitable to us all, rape is not. A lot of people who have been through wars and other grisly situations are disgusted and appalled by rape.
I do not use sexual elements in my game (or violent elements like rape) not because I cannot handle them, but because I have seen enough of it in this twisted world that I use rpgs as escapism. You can roll your eyes all you want, or you can face the facts. Use your brain and you will see a lot of people aren't being hypocrits. If you think hard on this, you will realize you owe buttercup an apology with your rant.
hellbender
I think the book touches on topics that hit a lot of people on a personal level. Again, the most telling thing to me, is the lack of people who are expressing an actual interest in buying the book...there's plenty of folks who want to discuss it or offer their opinions.
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