Book Prices...

[Monkey Boy]

What makes you think the 4E books were shipped in from China? I vaguely recall Rouse stating they were printed in the USA.

You are completely correct. I just checked my 4e PHB sitting next to me. I had this China idea in my head from the leaked pdf's at launch. Somehow I had it in my head that they had used a printing house in China. Just my overactive imagination.

 

[JeffB]

my...errr...my son's.... Xmas gift 4E starter set is produced in China, fwiw

 

[Darkwolf71]

They were much more expensive. You paid more, in raw dollars, for fewer pages and poorer art.

Fewer pages, sure. But with the layout differences, I'd guess a single page of 1e text would take 2 maybe even 3 pages of a 4e book.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

Of the people who work for minimum wage, a small percentage are people who do that for a long time, and support themselves (nevermind a family). It's hard to get exact numbers, in part because while the number of people working for minimum wage is fairly consistent, the actual people change constantly. A kid working his first job, or a spouse providing a modest but second income, is a completely different situation than someone scratching out a living for themselves and a few kids.

Data from states with higher minimum wages show lower unemployment and faster growth of small business when compared to states that follow the federal governments minimum wage.

It can be intrepreted that way, if you look at it at the right angle, yes. Correlation is not causation. But I think we are already over the line on political discussion considering the forum rules. So now that I've registered my disagreement, I'll drop out of that part.

 

[Mistwell]

Nope, my numbers are not off. My numbers are based on what the government has minimum wage set at and how many people they say earn only minimum wage.

Sorry, but you are mistaken and apparently not aware of the new Federal minimum wage law that starts in mid 2009 (I think in July), which is $7.25/hr. No state is allowed to go below that number, period.

Your minimum wage is very possibly set by your state, there are a number of states that set a minimum wage higher than what the federal government does, and those states data are what is used to disprove the argument that a higher wage would cost jobs and loss of business. Data from states with higher minimum wages show lower unemployment and faster growth of small business when compared to states that follow the federal governments minimum wage.

My state is at $8/hr., but ALL states cannot go below $7.25/hr coming up in mid 2009.

Plus everyone pays sales tax,

Several states do not, and most internet sales do not.

property tax,

Only if you own property, in which case you are almost certainly not making minimum wage. Let's be real here.

and they still pay into social security tax.

Not a tax really, and very low if you are making minimum wage.

So my numbers are not exact, but they are close, or at least better be because I got them from a US government website.

From an old site apparently.

So my numbers are good for the years I mentioned, 1979, 2005, and 2007.

But we are talking about going forward. As of mid-2009, you will have to work about 3 hours to make $20, and that is roughly including SS costs, and on minimum wage, in any state in the U.S..

 

[Storminator]

According to the US government its closer to 10 million people. I use Google and look up my facts as I type them.

You should try harder.

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, it's less than 2 million in 2007 (2008 not available yet) Tables 1 - 10; Characteristics of Minimum Wage Workers: 2007

If you factor in the corrections for unreported tips, it's closer to 1 million. (1.3 million in 2005, cite: Who Earns the Minimum Wage--Single Parents or Suburban Teenagers?)

Is a million a lot? Sure.

PS

 

[Treebore]

Sorry, but you are mistaken and apparently not aware of the new Federal minimum wage law that starts in mid 2009 (I think in July), which is $7.25/hr. No state is allowed to go below that number, period.



My state is at $8/hr., but ALL states cannot go below $7.25/hr coming up in mid 2009.



Several states do not, and most internet sales do not.



Only if you own property, in which case you are almost certainly not making minimum wage. Let's be real here.



Not a tax really, and very low if you are making minimum wage.



From an old site apparently.



But we are talking about going forward. As of mid-2009, you will have to work about 3 hours to make $20, and that is roughly including SS costs, and on minimum wage, in any state in the U.S..

You do realize you just used what hasn't happened yet to say I am wrong to say what has happened? Yeah, your going to be right in 2009, but we aren't even there yet, so I am correct, because what I quoted is what did happen. In 2007, 2005, and 1979. 2009 hasn't even occurred yet, and like I said, I looked up my info US government websites, so if I am wrong the US government is wrong.

So your right about the future, but as for today, your data hasn't even happened yet.

 

[Treebore]

You should try harder.

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, it's less than 2 million in 2007 (2008 not available yet) Tables 1 - 10; Characteristics of Minimum Wage Workers: 2007

If you factor in the corrections for unreported tips, it's closer to 1 million. (1.3 million in 2005, cite: Who Earns the Minimum Wage--Single Parents or Suburban Teenagers?)

Is a million a lot? Sure.

PS

Well, my source was the Congressional Budget Office for 2005. If the data has improved in 2 years thats a good thing.

 

[Storminator]

Well, my source was the Congressional Budget Office for 2005. If the data has improved in 2 years thats a good thing.

The data is largely unchanged in the last 2 years. 1.9 million in 2005, 1.7 million in 2007.

CBO isn't a good source of primary data.

PS

 

[Mistwell]

You do realize you just used what hasn't happened yet to say I am wrong to say what has happened? Yeah, your going to be right in 2009, but we aren't even there yet, so I am correct, because what I quoted is what did happen. In 2007, 2005, and 1979. 2009 hasn't even occurred yet, and like I said, I looked up my info US government websites, so if I am wrong the US government is wrong.

So your right about the future, but as for today, your data hasn't even happened yet.

1) Yes, the US Govt is often wrong. Did you miss the part that it is the US Govt?

2) Even in 2008, the Fed minimum wage is $6.55, which is still higher than the number you were quoting. That's $19.65 for three hours, and still not five to six hours.