Books pricing themselves out of reach?

Now I see all the college kids on the same campus I went to driving new SUVs and sports cars and blowing the electrical circuits on campus with computers, televisions, microwave ovens, etc. There are also plenty of kids walking around with cell phones and iPods. It's not that the money isn't out there. It's either (A) the people with that money aren't interested in RPGs or (B) the people who are interested in RPGs have better things to spend their money on.

One thing I think that needs to be taken into account for college kids these days with SUVs, sports cars, iPods, etc. - Credit! In order to be fashionable, a lot of kids take out loans for these cars (usually with parents as co-signers). Then there's the fact banks are willing to give college kids credit cards and a lot of college kids are willing to take on credit cards (multiple cards in fact). And while the kid may have a passing interest in RPGs and some fond memories of gaming in high school, keeping up with the current trends is most important. Which means he/she is gonna have to get an iPod and the latest cell phone and all of that. But technically speaking, they don't really have the disposable income for RPGs. And let us not forget the one thing that most college age kids will consider the most worthy of their disposable income... BEER! :D

Paul
 

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I have to chip in my $.02 and say I don't buy hardcover novels anymore either. They're just too expensive, especially when I know they'll be out in paperback for 1/4 of the price a few months later. I can understand an RPG book selling for $30-40, but a hardcover novel that I may read once or twice?!? C'mon...
 

Ogrork the Mighty said:
I have to chip in my $.02 and say I don't buy hardcover novels anymore either. They're just too expensive, especially when I know they'll be out in paperback for 1/4 of the price a few months later. I can understand an RPG book selling for $30-40, but a hardcover novel that I may read once or twice?!? C'mon...
I'm very much in the same camp. There are only a few books that I pick up in hardcover simply because I want a copy that will have a better chance of standing the test of time. Most of the time, however, I wait for the paperback or the collected editions (in the case of the Drizzt series).
 

paulsometimes said:
One thing I think that needs to be taken into account for college kids these days with SUVs, sports cars, iPods, etc. - Credit!

Oh, they had that, and beer, when I was in college, too. But parents do subsidize their children more than they used to. One of my summer jobs in college was delivering "down routes" for a local newspaper -- the paper routes that didn't have a kid doing the delivery. One week, I had to cover for a kid who was going on vacation. He appologized and said that he tried to get friends to cover for him but they all had huge allowances and didn't need the money and weren't interested in doing it.

paulsometimes said:
And let us not forget the one thing that most college age kids will consider the most worthy of their disposable income... BEER! :D

Actual quote, when someone on my dorm floor tried to get a D&D game together in college: "We used to play D&D, then we discovered beer."
 

Look at what people do by and then consider how much an RPG hardcover costs and if that really is an impedence to early sales.

How much are video games? I don't see that market drying up because of the price of entry.

Again back in the good old days, soft cover rpg books under a hundred pages in size for $8-$12 were not all that uncomon, and NOT cheap. The price tag looks bigger these days where as it is pretty much the same in modern funds.
 

JRRNeiklot said:
I don't buy hardback novels anymore either.

I determined when they started putting out paperback editions of SF/F books a year after the hardback, I was not going to pay a $20 premium to read a novel when it came out.

Of course, that year of waiting was enough for me to lose interest in the lines I was following, so I pretty much have stopped reading SF/F.
 


John Morrow said:
It think you talk about the real problem but them misidentify at the end. The problem isn't that gamers can't afford the games that are being published for $40-$50 or even the special editions that are being priced at $75 or more. Clearly, a lot of people do have the disposable income to make those kinds of purchases, as you plainly state that you do. The problem is that people won't spend that kind of money on something unless they really want it. And that people aren't willing to spend that sort of money on a lot of new releases means that they don't have any real burning desire to own those books.
Oh, I don't think we're all that far apart on this issue, really. The point I was making about income is that for someone like myself, the limit for an impulse purchase is higher than many people, which means that RPG publishers should really take note of their price point in combination with what kind of game they're selling. A $40 game that I'll read and use, not to mention enjoy the aesthetics of is something I will purchase. Something that I might enjoy for an evening or two but never use won't make the cut at that price. I think most gamers are the same, just that their price point is lower than mine.

As an example, I just picked up the pocket edition of Conan tonight, for $20. I'm reading it and enjoying it, but I don't see myself running a Conan game. I might mine some of it for my campaign though, and I might buy a supplement for it as well. I bought the pocket Conan, but there was no way I was going to get the edition at full price. I think it's a smart move by Mongoose to release both!

What I think people are saying is that they are willing to toss away $19.95 on a book and not feel too bad if they are ripped off, just like they might spend $19.95 on a gadget advertized in one of those "Wait! That's not all!" commercials even if they don't really need it or don't expect it to work. That $20 is disposable in the sense of, "I don't care if I throw it away on something useless", not just in the sense of, "I can afford to spend this on something recreational because I need that money to eat and pay rent." People have the money to spend but simply choose to spend it on something that seems to be a better value proposition to them.

But I think the deeper and more important message here is that people view role-playing products like those $19.95 gadgets on TV. They don't expect too much. They don't necessarily expect to be satisfied. They think it's likely that they won't get their money's worth. And I think that might be the real problem here. Role-playing game companies could charge $50 a book if people felt they were getting their money's worth. But all too often, they simply don't. And this goes back to the idea of a role-playing game as an impulse purchase rather than something people really want. Is that really the best the industry can do? Hope that someone will drop $20-$30 on a book they don't really want or need as a gamble?
I completely agree with this assessment.

It seems that in the last few years many game companies have moved to a "disposable" business model for their products: produce something every month that they intend to sell for 3-4 months and then have almost zero sales in from that point on. Heck, small print runs mean you don't even see it in stores after about three months. Now many of these companies have said that's the way the industry was moving anyway, and they're just responding to that trend. I have to say that this trend really disheartens me, because it results in less attention to things that I think are important: editing, playtesting and big ideas/concepts to begin with.

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to pay a premium price to buy a sloppily researched book on a subject that only marginally interests me and is full of rules gaffes to boot! The thing that I find especially interesting is that many of the companies that have used this sort of business practice are getting out of publishing or at least leaving D20 behind them. "No one is buying D20 books, the bubble has burst!" To that I have this to say: duh!

I guess my suggestions for how to make things better are to charge what you need to charge for a book, but also proofread it, edit it, understand the D20 rules you're using, and make the book something I'll actually want to use. Now as I said before, that last one is the tough one, because my desires for what to put in a book are not yet universal. So perhaps do some market research on what gamers are looking for. Take a look at what Mike Mearls is writing in Iron Lore, and ask yourself what other niches in D20 haven't been filled yet.

So those are some of my thoughts on the matter. In case it isn't obvious, by the way, all of this is just my opinion.

--Steve

Just a quick edit: I'm making it sound like I believe all of the companies that have gotten out of D20 publishing were putting out poor products. I don't believe that to be true, so if I paint with too broad a brush I apologize for it.
 
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JamesDJarvis said:
Look at what people do by and then consider how much an RPG hardcover costs and if that really is an impedence to early sales.

How much are video games? I don't see that market drying up because of the price of entry.

Again back in the good old days, soft cover rpg books under a hundred pages in size for $8-$12 were not all that uncomon, and NOT cheap. The price tag looks bigger these days where as it is pretty much the same in modern funds.

Didn't several people note that comparing video games to RPGs is an apple to oranges thing? I mean you're not going to find Arcana Evolved in a bargin bin at any large book store for $19.95 down the road are you? You can't rent it.

You can however rent a video game and play it right away without having to do any preperation work or without getting your friends together.

If RPGs think they can price themselves simliar to video games for long term sales I'm afraid they'll be quite mistaken.
 

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