Borders trouble, could lead to BIG TROUBLE!

[Stormonu]

Unless I'm missing something, this doesn't sound as bad as the nightmare TSR faced back in the 90's. From what I recalled back then, slowor non-moving stock could be sent back to TSR and they would have to refund the monies. This looks like a case of one of the end sellers just going down the drain, possibly taking a distributor with them, due to unpaid debt. I'm guessing WotC's already gotten most of their money, and the big problem being for them to find other distribution channels to get their books out.

I mean, it doesn't sound like a good situation, but I'd put it in the category that I don'tthink Nike would go out of business because Foot Locker closed. Or am I completely missing something?

 

[DaveMage]

I heard a statistic today (I have not confirmed) that Barnes & Noble sold over 1 million eBooks on Christmas day alone. If true, one can see why Borders stores would continue to be in trouble. (I had also heard they've been struggling for a long time.)

 

[Sunseeker]

Borders has been circling the drain for a while.

Basically their competent management left after Kmart bought them in 1992. Kmart merged the successful Borders with not quite as successful Waldenbooks, then spun them off.

Really, it's been obvious for the past decade or so. One of the primary symptoms is that they hadn't updated any of their POS or back office systems since the mid-nineties. They just started refreshing these systems last year. I know one other national chain in the same condition, Blockbuster.

Bad management, late movement into online sales, ancillary sales, and electronic media doomed them.

This is pretty much how I've felt since I moved to my new town and started going to Borders instead of Barnes and Noble. It's like when you walk into those places and you just get this feeling like the store is going downhill. Shelves are disorganized, product is often unstocked or left sitting on carts all day, staff is few and far-between.

Personally, I don't think it will be THAT bad for WotC or the genre. Books will be sold at B&N instead of Borders, and smaller stores in areas where a Borders closes will be able to claim a larger market share.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

I mean, it doesn't sound like a good situation, but I'd put it in the category that I don'tthink Nike would go out of business because Foot Locker closed. Or am I completely missing something?

I think if Footlocker closed Nike would still be selling stuff out of their own stores, Sears, Macy's and a million other places.

From what I understand there aren't as many LGS as there used to be and most non-gamers wouldn't know how to find one. But they'd know where to find a local Borders or B&N. Borders closing takes away another fairly mainstream venue from RPG publishers, mainly WOTC though.

I see a smattering of Paizo and other companies in Borders here in NYC. They have tons of WOTC stuff though.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

The only reason that I buy at Borders is because of the Rewards program and the coupons (33% off, 40% off and sometimes 50% off). If I played 4E i'd be in hog heaven, 'cause i'd be buying all of my books from Borders. I occasionally pick up the odd gaming book from Borders on sale. I picked up a few Star Wars Saga books from there before they completely disappeared.

 

[Krensky]

So Sears, Kmart, Borders, and Waldenbooks are all part of the same inbred corporation? Oh good lord.

Used to be. Kmart bought Waldenbook in 1984 (if I remember right). Then they bought Borders in 1992. Then they spun them together in 1994 and off in 1995. Kmart bought Sears in 2005 or so.

Also, B&N isn't anywhere near the same condition. They're hurting, with the recession and general lack of literacy or desire to read in the country, but their still doing fine. Their biggest problem is the spat in their board between the controlling founding family and a corporate raider. I haven't been paying much attention lately, but the raider is claiming that B&N overpaid when they bought back their school bookstore division and has been wasting money on online sales, the nook, and ebooks.

 

[Mallus]

I mean, it doesn't sound like a good situation, but I'd put it in the category that I don'tthink Nike would go out of business because Foot Locker closed. Or am I completely missing something?

I think you're missing the fact Borders is more important to certain parts of the publishing industry than Foot Locker is to athletic footwear biz. Nike sneakers are available in many big retail outlets. There simply aren't many book retailers left.

The article I read yesterday described some publishers facing a real Hobson's choice: either keep shipping books to Borders stores, even though Borders has stopped paying for them, or face the loss of Borders as a retail outlet for their products, which would inevitably lead to a (large) loss of revenue.

Personally, I stopped patronizing Borders regularly a long time ago, but I fondly recall when it was still a big thing here in Philadelphia. There's still a market for the old-time Borders experience --big selection, big knowledgeable staff, a sense of community, etc.-- even in the Age of E-Books, but I'm not sure a corporate entity, with the scale of the Borders operation, can provide it -- I mean, Borders couldn't provide it successfully for long.

 

[Stormonu]

I think if Footlocker closed Nike would still be selling stuff out of their own stores, Sears, Macy's and a million other places.

From what I understand there aren't as many LGS as there used to be and most non-gamers wouldn't know how to find one. But they'd know where to find a local Borders or B&N. Borders closing takes away another fairly mainstream venue from RPG publishers, mainly WOTC though.

I see a smattering of Paizo and other companies in Borders here in NYC. They have tons of WOTC stuff though.

Well, for me I get my RPG stuff at BAM (Books-a-million) and Amazon.* The Pathfinder stuff I usually either get off Paizo through their store, including my AP SUbscription. Where I live, there isn't a Borders that I know of, and the closest B&N is 60 miles away. For me at least, a Borders closing wouldn't have a direct impact, two of the major places I shop (one of which is actually local), would still be present.

* We also had a Waldenbooks, but that vanished after Katrina wiped it out.

 

[carmachu]

Being a Pathfinder GM, player and 3pp developer, I am hopeful that Paizo gets a minimal hit in this regard.

GP

They have a great subscription model. I never, either borders or B&N see more then 1-2 books on the shelf from them, and its usually a suprise.

Wizards, while it will suck for them, being the biggest game thats on their shelves, are also big enough to (hopefully) weather the books coming back- they have an income stream from DDI.

The one I owuld fear more are folks like FFG and catalylst games, whome I see some oftheir books on the shelves.

 

[carmachu]

Used to be. Kmart bought Waldenbook in 1984 (if I remember right). Then they bought Borders in 1992. Then they spun them together in 1994 and off in 1995. Kmart bought Sears in 2005 or so.

Uhm do you have links for that? Because I'm pretty sure Kmart didnt buy Sears, in fact Kmart was in trouble for a while.....