boring combat

I realize a lot of this has been said already. My take
(I actually a 10 hour game last week that was pretty cool. About 5 hours was one fight.... 3 pcs vs one creature)

1. Less die rolling. not more.
The ideal game is this: there are only two things going on the players acting and my describing the world. Dice, computers, fiddling with palms, its all distracting. People like to feel like their decision making is important. If they spend 80% of their time dice rolling then the players don't matter.
I have pregenerated sheets of numbers (a friend made a web page for me) that i just print off. (at work now don't have the addy). If two 2 PCs are surrounded by 6 acid shamblers I glance at the numbers one 20 and the rest below 16? You don't need to talk about every swing, just describe the shambler's slow plodding movements, how easy it is to keep them at bay and the lucky shot one of them got jarring Sir Xerces' shield arm.
Whenever you need something rolled ask the PCs to roll. Especially if its not important just have them roll their own posion damage or whatever. They see it. They can't complain and you can be figuring out what the poison does.
Dierolling is the single most time consuming and unnessessary ritual. Save it for those important fights.

2. Organization.
When I'm ready for a battle and I'm not its pretty obvious. Ideally all the monster sheets are on a clipboard or in a binder so you can flip at will.


3. You MUST describe. I know. I don't always do this but you must not only decribe but actually try to see what the situation is like. Maybe an enemy has lept up on a table its a lot easier to tumble through that square by going under the table.

4. switch up the types of fighting. This is often not thought about but its actually just good for your sanity.
Some monsters are charge in and kill them or be killed types. Some are strategic. Some aren't too excited about fighting and aren't going to stick around.
Charge in and kill them types are fun and easy. But even they should be strategic. Look at the last 5 or 10 encounters you've had. Did the monsters approach (maybe talk for a bit) and then start hacking? Throw in somebody who's happy to inflict a wound, wait for the posion to knock somebody unconcious and then come back later.

5. IGNORE THE CRS
This is kinda like sacrelidge. One of my PCs constantly complains whenever I do this (but he keeps coming back for more). Orc killing ranks a close second behind die rolling for being a huge waste of time.
Don't limit yourself to having a bunch of same-CR-level creatures. Its unnatural. Have some weak stuff floating around but if you're going to spend 2 hours on it then the PCs should care about it.
Give them challeneging encounters and reward them well for it.

6 Other really good advice was said above, of course.
a. Change environments
b. Motivation that AFFECTS combat. Maybe the brooding warrior has a complex backstory. Ideally it'll reflect itself in his actions. Foes that have goals in combat, pecular habits (even just pointing out who they're going to kill next after they're done with whoever they're facing now), codes of honor, specific targets, items they want to take from the PCs, things they want to get to before the PCs, etc.

Glad things have already improved, btw, sleeponcouches. Some sessions are just better than others.
 

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There have been a lot of good suggestions (and a few that I wouldn't advise taking) on this thread. I've got a few contributions to add though:

1. Explore the options of 3e combat. Don't have the next group of orcs the players fight be standard MM orcs. Mix them up a bit. Make them orcs of the Red Knee, a feared orc tribe used by a friend of mine when he DMs. Orcs of the Red knee are known for their dirty and vicious fighting style which involves jamming their knee spikes into their opponents' vulnerable spots. In game terms, they're Bbn 1/Rgr 1s who usually dual wield a greataxe and armor spikes. Not your standard combat style.

Have other enemies who use spring attack with a reach weapon (maybe a guisarme), combat reflexes, and improved trip.

Try out a fighter with improved sunder against the PCs.

Take a gladiator with the disarm feats.

Use bull rushes.

Use hordes of zombies who make grapple attacks.

Use creatures with improved grab and swallow whole, etc.

Use creatures who don't use the normal combat mechanics. Stirges, for instance are not dangerous for the damage they dish out but for the con damage they cause.

2. Vary the environment. It's been said before, but vary it in the encounter as well. Have foes cast obscuring mist and fog cloud. Have enemies cast pyrotechnics on the PCs' campfire at night. Use Rock to mud on the ground in front of them when they face a group of archers. All of these things will make combat new and different and force the PCs to find new strategies to adapt to their new surroundings.

For a more mundane scenario, try placing a combat on the outskirts of a frozen lake presenting the PCs with the choice of risking slipping on the ice in order to gain better tactical position or playing it safe and staying on the ground. If anything big happens on the lake (giant tosses a boulder, fireball goes off, etc) you can have the ice crack, presenting a new problem--swimming out of the freezing cold lake. Alternately, you could have it split into multiple ice chunks which characters can still balance on (and making movement very risky) or just have weak areas of the ice for characters to take chances on or bull rush their enemies onto.
 

LostSoul said:

I stand up, and physically act out the motions. I remember what happened last attack, and go from there. ("You try to dodge his sword, but he's too fast! Luckily, it bounces off your armour; the magic in it saved you." roll again... miss again, this time big. "The assasin tries to recover his swing, but you're ready and you parry it, no sweat." roll again... somebody from behind hits the PC, five points of damage. "But the guy to your side swings when your sword is out of place, and you roll with it just in time. It'll leave a big bruise.")

As a player I'd just find this sort of thing distracting. Occasionally it might be cool but if the DM does this with _every_ fight, I'd avoid fights...Let the players use their own imaginations. You just sow the seeds...they make it grow into a mental image. That's my opinion anyway. YMMV.
 

Grraf said:
I realize a lot of this has been said already. My take
(I actually a 10 hour game last week that was pretty cool. About 5 hours was one fight.... 3 pcs vs one creature)


Imagine watching a movie where one fight between 4 guys takes half the movie...Done right, it can be very cool. Done wrong, you just want to get up and leave.


1. Less die rolling. not more.
The ideal game is this: there are only two things going on the players acting and my describing the world. Dice, computers, fiddling with palms, its all distracting. People like to feel like their decision making is important. If they spend 80% of their time dice rolling then the players don't matter.


I think my players enjoy rolling their dice. If I tried to take that away, there'd be a revolt. Now...I agree that it can be overly time consuming for some players. They do their little rituals like shaking the die or blowing on it like they are at the craps table. It is very annoying...I try to encourage them to just roll already, but as long as they are enjoying it...



2. Organization.
When I'm ready for a battle and I'm not its pretty obvious. Ideally all the monster sheets are on a clipboard or in a binder so you can flip at will.


Absolutely. A disorganized DM can slow down a combat immensely. I generally have all my monsters and NPCs printed out on 4X6 cards in advance (just typing them up is a HUGE help in learning what they can do). I have the figures set aside and ready to put on the table in short order.



3. You MUST describe. I know. I don't always do this but you must not only decribe but actually try to see what the situation is like. Maybe an enemy has lept up on a table its a lot easier to tumble through that square by going under the table.


That may be good for you, but in my experience, it doesn't always work. Not everyone is good at coming up with a one or two sentence description of the action on the fly without becoming repetative and dull. As I said...let the players use their own imaginations. You give them the basics, they do the rest. Again...YMMV.



4. switch up the types of fighting. This is often not thought about but its actually just good for your sanity.


Absolutely! When I plan an adventure, I try to look at the planned (and "random") encounters. Hopefully no more than 2 will be similar. The PCs should face a variety of encounters so that different PCs will have an opportunity to shine.



5. IGNORE THE CRS


I disagree (sort of). Just vary the Encounter Levels. If you've got 4 5th level characters and want to put them through 5 encounters for an adventure, vary them from EL 3 to EL 6 or 7 with an average right around 5 (probably a little below unless they have a chance to avoid some of them). The "climatic" encounter doesn't have to be the toughest...if you put the EL 7 in early (maybe 2nd or 3rd), you might just scare them enough to make them want to turn around and run...

Include encounters the PCs can't handle. Sometimes the only option is to run or negotiate.

Also have smaller encounters able to combine into larger ones that the party can't handle...Sure...they can handle the two ogres easily, but what about the 6 others living down the hall who might hear the fight?

Definately don't just have 4 EL 5 encounters...too predictable.
 

Awhile back, I posted the Top 5 Ways To More Compelling Encounters from roleplayingtips.com:
  1. Choose a compelling location. Encounters become boring if they all take place on wide city streets, in the middle of a plain or in 10 foot wide corridors. For example, place the scene on the edge of a cliff, in a beautiful garden, on a rickety bridge, beside a raging river...
  2. Mix-up the weather a bit. Is it always bright and sunny? Change the weather every so often to: very cold, extremely hot, windy, foggy, hailing, or a fine scotch mist. How does the weather assist or impede the characters' actions? Also under the weather category can be placed such things as rainbows, northern lights and ball lightning!
  3. Alter the lighting: dusk, dark, too bright, glowing red, strobing colors. While different lighting can affect game mechanics and character actions, it can also be used subtly to just make the encounter memorable for your players.
  4. Change the footing. Just like lighting, you can change the ground so that it helps or hinders the party, and you can use it to help make the encounter stick in your players' minds for a long time to come: loose gravel, muddy, sandy, puddles, deep moss, pot holes, slime...
  5. Put the reward on the end of a stick. It's fun hiding treasure to make it tough and exciting for the characters to find it. But try putting the reward or treasure in plain site on occasion to provide extra and immediate character motivation. For example, hang the treasure from the ceiling well out of arm's reach, put it at the bottom of a clear pool, have the foe wear it or use it, put writing on the wall for all to see "Here Be Treasure". Then put something in between the characters and their displayed reward and watch the fur fly.
  6. Bonus Tip:
    Put more than one challenge, foe or conflict into the encounter and hit the party from all sides. Panic is a result of feeling overwhelmed. Allowing the players to focus on just one challenge at a time will not overwhelm them, so add additional simultaneous challenges to help create panic:
    • multiple foes (i.e. another foe drawn in by the sounds of battle)
    • impending doom (i.e. the ceiling's slowly dropping)
    • impending calamity (i.e. she's tied to a log that's headed straight for the screaming saw blade)
    • cut-off the party's escape
    • add a time limit (i.e. return before sundown or...)
    • add bad weather, bad footing and bad lighting!
 

There's also a Roleplaying Encounters Tweak Idea List suggesting plenty of "compelling" locations. Here are a few:
  • beautiful garden
  • rickety bridge
  • edge of a cliff
  • beside a raging river
  • volcano
  • dune
  • snow drift
  • quicksand
  • head-high grassland
  • burnt forest
I've been meaning to bull-rush someone into a dwarven smelting furnace...

What are some of the most "compelling" locations you've used? Or want to use?
 

When's the last time you made a point about the weather during a fight? I guess it doesn't come up too much in a dungeon, but here are some suggested weather variations:
  • hail
  • sleet
  • snow
  • fog/mist
  • dust storm
  • thunder storm
  • avalanche
  • mud slide
  • "fog" of insects
Strong enough winds ruin missile attacks. Heck, they might toss shields around too. If your campaign world is fantastic/magical enough, have it rain blood!
 

The original article mentions footing, and the Tweak Idea List gives a few examples:
  • Loose Gravel
  • Clutching Weeds
  • Treacherous Angle
  • Icy
I can't say I've given "compelling" footing much thought before, but like the snow example, some of these can spice up a game quite a bit. Ice, for instance, could force a Balance check every time you attack -- or are attacked. In D&D, "clutching weeds" could literally try to grab characters and grapple them. Maybe a patch of carnivorous flora would be boring as its own encounter, but how about noticing it in the middle of combat, when you can't pick up your foot to dodge?
 

Lots of great advice in this thread. To expand on a couple of points...

mouseferatu said:
If you guys are having fun, that's great, and I'm not knocking it. But I can't stand combat that's just "I hit. 15 points. I miss."

(snip)

It really doesn't require any effort at all once you get used to it.

It doesn't hurt to paperclip a list of descriptive words inside your DM screen while you're getting into the swing of things. A little time spent with online thesauri, some cutting and pasting, and you've got a way to keep your vocabulary lively during the game.

http://www.thesaurus.com/

http://www.m-w.com/home.htm

http://www.libraryspot.com

mmadsen said:
When's the last time you made a point about the weather during a fight? I guess it doesn't come up too much in a dungeon, but here are some suggested weather variations:
  • hail
  • sleet
  • snow
  • fog/mist
  • dust storm
  • thunder storm
  • avalanche
  • mud slide
  • "fog" of insects
Strong enough winds ruin missile attacks. Heck, they might toss shields around too. If your campaign world is fantastic/magical enough, have it rain blood!

I also like to make some notes on my own map about the DCs of various terrain. Rocks near the waterfall can be slippery, even more so during a rain. Wind can make a rope braidge or narrow ledge much more dangerous, bump up the DC for movement on those. Have lightning strike a nearby tree during a climatic moment and take out one of the enemy archers. It's not deus ex machina if you have added an extra archer just for that effect. :)
 

D&D, by conventions, presents encounters in a "Red Queen" fashion; the encounters always just keep up with the heroes' power level. For a "compelling" change of pace, try:
  • An unstoppable monster, like the Balrog/Balor released by delving dwarves. The heroes can only hope to escape it -- and, perhaps, rescue some hapless allies.
  • A true horde of monsters. For all the talk of wading through hordes of Goblins and Orcs, when was the last time your party fought more than a dozen of anything at once? Try 50 Goblins.
 

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