Brainstorming a “Kitchen Sink“ Sci-Fi campaign

[Nobby-W]

[ . . . ]
Clearly, stuff like this won’t necessarily have mundane defenses, and can do things not easily replicated by tech. But also, as is obvious with Gil, the powers have their own inherent limitations. Gil might easily open a locked door in your house or mine today, but he probably couldn’t do likewise with a touchpad unless he already knew the code.

It's not necessary to have all possible psi-effects matched by technology; it just doesn't introduce balance issues if it does. Once you have capabilities unique to psionics then you have to start applying the munchkin test. Think of the most annoying, entitled powergamer you've ever played with and try to imagine what he might do with a character that had that power.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

It's not necessary to have all possible psi-effects matched by technology; it just doesn't introduce balance issues if it does. Once you have capabilities unique to psionics then you have to start applying the munchkin test. Think of the most annoying, entitled powergamer you've ever played with and try to imagine what he might do with a character that had that power.

As a reformed munchkin, I get that. But I’m also not a fan of über balance in games, especially RPGs. So while I’m not going to nerf psi in the name of balance, neither will it be given free reign.

Like I said, I need to figure out HOW I want to limit the psionic disciplines.

The first idea was the metabolic energy costs. They’re going to be large. That means that psionic PCs will be hearty eaters, as mentioned. This will translate into limited utility- most psions won’t be able to rely on their powers alone.

This will also mean that those in certain professions may well be consuming pharmaceutically enhanced foods, have cybernetic enhancements or even be hooked into machinery to supply them with the energy they need. Biological Navigators, for instance, will not only be feeding data into their ship’s computer system while on duty, but also into a ship-mounted rapid energy infusion system.

Some limitations I think make senunder consideration:

1) psionic activity can be detected by special sensors, so it’s not 100% undetectable

2) certain psionic effects may take time and concentration to use. Some may also be disrupted by physical contact.

3) Ranges on powers will vary by type. Something like TK or telepathy might have long ranges, but powers that change the way a body functions might be limited to one’s self or touch.

4) certain materials may block psionic energy or inhibit a psion’s biochemistry so as to inhibit the use of their powers

5) situational limitations: a TK assassin would need to know something of their target’s biology in order to affect them. A TK engineer couldn’t repair system he can’t perceive. A telepath might not fully understand the thoughts of an alien race.

Other ideas for limitations are welcome!

 

[MarkB]

Well, I definitely remember the exploratory ship in SGU, but it wasn’t a seeder.

No, but it was following a path of gates seeded by other ships.

 

[Eltab]

That assumes they know about it, which is not assured by any means.

If your plan includes the assumption(s) "the enemy is blind and deaf to his surroundings and to our activity; he is too stupid / foolish to think of doing what we are going to do; even if he does notice he won't do anything effective about it" then it is going to go for you like it went for the Japanese at the Battle of Midway. The US did notice, in good time, and took counter-action.

And if I am going to fight somebody with spacefaring capability, the first thing I do is put telescopes with recorders all over everywhere so I can see things that aren't where I expect them to be, or are heading where I don't want them to be.
Starting with one watching the exit from the nearest Stargate(s)

Your typical seige is the act of surrounding a position, and waiting for your enemy to run out of essential needs - like food and water. If you have a habitable planet, they aren't going to run out of food, water, or air... basically ever.

Food water and air don't make a starfaring civilization (necessary but not sufficient). Industrial capacity is needed. Drop washing-machine-sized chunks of nickle-iron asteroids on specific factories and facilities until they cannot build anything that can get off the ground and into orbit. If the enemy is stubborn, rip up his transport networks (target bridges, hit the ocean and push a tsunami into a port) so grain in the fields cannot reach the hungry mouths in cities. The historical example would be 1945 Japan.

 

[Umbran]

If your plan includes the assumption(s) "the enemy is blind and deaf to his surroundings and to our activity; he is too stupid / foolish to think of doing what we are going to do; even if he does notice he won't do anything effective about it"

No. It assumes that space, as they say, is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mindbogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space. And watching it all, all the time, is no simple endeavor.

Now, please do recall what I started this with - a question: What prevents this? The answer so far has been, "but the burn!" I've noted how that's insufficient.

So, maybe now your solution is accepting that it is by no means a simple endeavor, but that civilizations take up constant paranoid monitoring of the space around valuable planets.

And that has implications that perhaps Danny hasn't considered. It is expensive, it has its own strengths and vulnerabilities - it says things about how warfare would be conducted.

Which is the point of the discussion.

Food water and air don't make a starfaring civilization (necessary but not sufficient). Industrial capacity is needed. Drop washing-machine-sized chunks of nickle-iron asteroids on specific factories and facilities until they cannot build anything that can get off the ground and into orbit.

So, that's less "siege" and more "assault".

But, it is interesting how you come to basically the same solution I have, but using far more forces and having to pacify the system around the planet first...

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

And that has implications that perhaps Danny hasn't considered. It is expensive, it has its own strengths and vulnerabilities - it says things about how warfare would be conducted.

That’s another part of the:

1) ships have short range hyperspace capability only

And

2) the long range portals are built within asteroids

The first means your civilization’s actual boundaries are protected by voids of space that it would largely be improbable to launch an attack force across. “Space Hannibal” might try it, but it would be a tactic both rare and unlikely to succeed. You still need to monitor your frontiers- there’s always raiders, rebels, the aforementioned expeditionary forces and, of course, the unknown- but you’re not going to be under constant threat of attack.

The second creates choke points that are fairly defensible.

The unspoken wild-card is:

3) the portals, being sentient, might choose to make things more or less difficult for military forces seeking to use them, based on their own motives.

 

[MGibster]

It's not necessary to have all possible psi-effects matched by technology; it just doesn't introduce balance issues if it does. Once you have capabilities unique to psionics then you have to start applying the munchkin test. Think of the most annoying, entitled powergamer you've ever played with and try to imagine what he might do with a character that had that power.

I suspect any society with psions present would likely have created institutions to channel their behavior into something beneficial. (Beneficial to whom is a good question though.) I can only assume that such an institution would have a method for dealing with those munchkin characters.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I suspect any society with psions present would likely have created institutions to channel their behavior into something beneficial. (Beneficial to whom is a good question though.) I can only assume that such an institution would have a method for dealing with those munchkin characters.

Depends on the society. Some will lionize them. Some will treat them like any other natural gift. Some will enslave them.

...some will mark them for death and hunt them down.

 

[Nobby-W]

I suspect any society with psions present would likely have created institutions to channel their behavior into something beneficial. (Beneficial to whom is a good question though.) I can only assume that such an institution would have a method for dealing with those munchkin characters.

I was more thinking of designing exploitable loopholes out of the rules so you don't have to use lazy tropes like omnisicent psi-cop services to keep munchkin players in line.

You could certainly have psi cops, or even just ordinary cops with psi shields. A psi spook service or psi branch, or maybe a Jedi-like order could also exist. The best treatment of this I've seen was the Telzey Amberdon stories, where there is a psi spook service that wants the protagonist to join. She's not antagonistic to them, but maintains an arm's-length relationship.

The stories themselves were mostly written in the 1960s or 1970s, so they're a bit dated. They're nothing special but they are passably good space opera. However, they did a a fairly good job of working through the mcguffinite around a character with powerful psionic abilities, perhaps the best I've seen in any sci-fi novel.

I just remembered another series - Chandler's John Grimes stories feature characters with psi abilities working as navigator/comms officer types. It also has one or two story lines about psi-capable critters, something which pops up in the Telzey Amberdon stories a couple of times as well.

 

[Nobby-W]

As a reformed munchkin, I get that. But I’m also not a fan of über balance in games, especially RPGs. So while I’m not going to nerf psi in the name of balance, neither will it be given free reign.

Like I said, I need to figure out HOW I want to limit the psionic disciplines.

The first idea was the metabolic energy costs. They’re going to be large. That means that psionic PCs will be hearty eaters, as mentioned. This will translate into limited utility- most psions won’t be able to rely on their powers alone.

This will also mean that those in certain professions may well be consuming pharmaceutically enhanced foods, have cybernetic enhancements or even be hooked into machinery to supply them with the energy they need. Biological Navigators, for instance, will not only be feeding data into their ship’s computer system while on duty, but also into a ship-mounted rapid energy infusion system.

Some limitations I think make senunder consideration:

1) psionic activity can be detected by special sensors, so it’s not 100% undetectable

2) certain psionic effects may take time and concentration to use. Some may also be disrupted by physical contact.

3) Ranges on powers will vary by type. Something like TK or telepathy might have long ranges, but powers that change the way a body functions might be limited to one’s self or touch.

4) certain materials may block psionic energy or inhibit a psion’s biochemistry so as to inhibit the use of their powers

5) situational limitations: a TK assassin would need to know something of their target’s biology in order to affect them. A TK engineer couldn’t repair system he can’t perceive. A telepath might not fully understand the thoughts of an alien race.

Other ideas for limitations are welcome!

Making telepathic capabilities detectable and shieldable is definitely a start. You could also have critters like the Yoli that makes an appearance in Schmitz's Company Planet that can act as a psionic guard. You can make capabilities like reading thoughts not 100% reliable. It might only get stuff like "I really want a kebab right now." A deep-probe capability should be felt by the target or have some other obvious drawback, so it can't just be used casually to get their deepest secrets willy-nilly. That's the biggest loophole you need to plug with telepathy.

A psi attack can be mechanically as powerful as a mundane weapon without being an issue - after all, the effect can be replicated by having a character armed with a weapon. I don't think theres's any need to overly nerf psi attacks, but having them tire the character out or use some limited resource pool is a good idea. This applies to pretty much any psi-attack, whether it's telepathic, telekinetic or some sort of pyrokinetic or energy blast attack.

Buildings or vehicles could be psi shielded. That's certainly a tech that should exist in the setting. That capability should be available to pretty much any NPC faction so you can trot it out from time to time, but it shouldn't be universal and it shouldn't be something too elite.

If you've ever seen The Greatest American Hero, the clairvoyance powers of the suit might make a good start. It gave the protagonist the ability to hold an object and see some imagery about its owner, from the past or present. A 'See through walls' type ability can be replicated with mundane tech like a backscatter imaging system; you could possibly have some sort of psi-jammer device that distorts or reduces the resolution of these abilities.

Mind control is another one you need to be careful with. In the Amberdon-verse it was very powerful and pretty much given against non-psi targets, probably too powerful for a role playing game. Something like the Jedi mind trick from Star Wars is OK, because a similar effect could be achieved by a good forgery or a character with good crap artistry skills. Think of the effects of something like Charm Person from D&D or Befuddle from Runequest.

Space Master used a Rolemaster style spell list system for its psionics, so there are some large lists of psi abilities if you can dig up a PDF of Future Law. You might also look at the Mentalism realm from Spell Law, even if you don't want to use the Rolemaster mechanics.