Brainstorming Orcish Society

[chronoplasm]

So I was thinking...
Maybe instead of having a clearly defined leader of the tribe, Orcs could use consensus decision-making.

Rather than following the command of a single Orc or following the majority rule, Orcs will try and come to an agreement that every member of the tribe can agree to. Once they have set an agenda, the Orcs will follow a simple process for coming to this agreement.
First the Orcs will discuss the item and identify general opinions and direction of the group. Then some Orcs will come forward with some proposals. Once proposals are made, there is a call for consensus. Orcs will raise their fists and yell if they agree with an item or throw things if they disagree. If consensus is not achieved, the dissenters will voice their concerns, and then the proposal will be modified. This process will continue until all the orcs are reasonably content.

Each Orcish tribe will have a few members, usually shamans, who perform some key roles in this process.
Time Guards ensure that things stay on schedule.
Empaths monitor consensus and the emotional climate of the meeting.
Scribes take notes. Generally the scribe will be the only literate member of the tribe.
Chieftans are not leaders in Orcish society, but facilitators who use a variety of techniques to make the decision reaching process easier and break up fights that may break out amongst the group.


Remember that part in one of the Lord of the Rings where the Orcs are marching and they have Merry and Pippin tied up and one of the Orcs is like "Come on, can we eat them?"
The chief is like "No, Saruman wants these two alive."
"Come on! We haven't had any meat in ages! We aren't marching until we get a breather!"
So the chief chops the other Orcs head off and says "Meat is back on the menu!"

See? If we were a real tyrant he could have simply made the other Orcs keep marching with no food. Instead he looks for a solution that the entire group can be satisfied with! ...Except for that one Orc that died, but the point is that everybody gets to take a break and have a bite to eat and Merry and Pippin don't get eaten. It's called compromise.


What do you think? Ideas?

This is a work in progress and I'll be adding some more stuff later.

 

[Set]

Rather than following the command of a single Orc or following the majority rule, Orcs will try and come to an agreement that every member of the tribe can agree to. Once they have set an agenda, the Orcs will follow a simple process for coming to this agreement.
First the Orcs will discuss the item and identify general opinions and direction of the group. Then some Orcs will come forward with some proposals. Once proposals are made, there is a call for consensus. Orcs will raise their fists and yell if they agree with an item or throw things if they disagree. If consensus is not achieved, the dissenters will voice their concerns, and then the proposal will be modified. This process will continue until all the orcs are reasonably content.

While the idea sounds very neat, I'm having problems wrapping my brain around orcs using it. Elves? Maybe (with less hurling of items and more hurling of catty insults during the debate). But I've always seen Orcs ruled by a strong chieftan (who may or may not be in thrall to more powerful forces yet, that allow him to be in charge, such as a masked dark elven advisor or a mind flayer that communicates with him psionically or a shaman necromancer who has his gnarlies in a sling). Under the chief orc, who rules through excessive displays of violence, would be some subchiefs that are essentially his 'posse' of friends and family who get to lord it over the rest of the orcs with his blessing.

'Debate' in an Orcish tribe would be, IMO, a matter of a bunch of orcs sick of being at the bottom of the social ladder uniting and killing the current chief, with Stalin-esque purges of his former subchieftans likely to be next on the agenda, as the tribe tears itself apart in a paroxysm of smoldering grudges coming out with sharpened knives and unpopular people ending up mysteriously dead, before the new biggest, baddest, strongest, meanest mofo takes over and whips them into a frenzy of raiding others to get them back on track (and foster a temporary sense of 'us vs. them' community among the newly reorganized tribe).

About the only setting I've seen that would have a calmer sort of debate, as you've described, would be Eberron, where the Orcs are quite a bit less fractious and violent (if not what a member of most other races would call 'civilized').

It's a neat idea, but really goes far away from what seems to be the 'traditional' depiction of Orcs, where conflict-resolution follows a more Klingon model and less of a round-table voting system.

 

[chronoplasm]

Oh, I'm not saying there wouldn't be excessive violence now. The Time Guards would certainly use excessive violence to keep everyone on schedule.
My idea here though is that I actually wanted to give Orcs a way to function without any kind of real leadership at all. I see Orcs as too independently minded to follow a formal leader. This system is supposed to allow the Orcs to do what they want to do while still staying somewhat cohesive as a group. It must be understood that this isn't a really formal structure I'm trying to describe, but a form of controlled chaos.

 

[robertliguori]

IMC, orcs have a lot of yelling, threats, bragging, displays of strength, and occasionally brawling to resolve disputes, but lethal force is reserved for pinkskins. Orc tribes that don't keep their aggression focused outward rapidly cease to become orc tribes and quickly become the last remaining orc in a nasty and hostile environment. The thing about orcish soceity is that it is very much like prison; yes, you can kick around and abuse the smaller members of the tribe if you want, but then you need to sleep with one eye open for the rest of your life. The best thing would be to make sure that not only would no one dare mess with you, no one has cause to, either.

So, following the ideas of the OP, orc social hierarchy essentially has no memory. If you proclaim 'charge', and the orcs charge, and you win the day, then you are considered a good warchief. If you give an order that isn't obeyed, or if you give an order that is obeyed but leads to defeat, then the orcs don't listen to you. If you later show more leadership capacity, orcs start listening to you again.

So, if an evil dark advisor can find a pliable candidate, throw their weight behind them, and as long as they can keep the evil power flowing, can generally count on the support of that tribe, especially if they quietly assassinate other leadership candidates.

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

I like this idea...very unique way to treat orcs. Cool

 

[chronoplasm]

Robert: Good ideas! It's just that for my setting I don't want orcs to have any form of leadership at all. Any member can come forward with ideas. What matters is that the rest of the tribe can get behind those ideas.
See, it's important that all orcs should be able to agree because orcs aren't going to follow any course of action they don't agree with, but the tribe needs to stick together to survive.
Anyone would be able to come forward with ideas. Orcs that have come up with successful ideas in the past might be given more respect and consideration. Perhaps the orcs wouldn't just listen to other orcs, but to anyone with an appealing suggestion. Perhaps a dark advisor can simply address the tribe directly.

Also, I'm thinking that I might stat up the orcish Time Guards and Empaths as enemies could those could be pretty interesting.

 

[Set]

Anyone would be able to come forward with ideas. Orcs that have come up with successful ideas in the past might be given more respect and consideration. Perhaps the orcs wouldn't just listen to other orcs, but to anyone with an appealing suggestion. Perhaps a dark advisor can simply address the tribe directly.

Do the orcs take suggestions from non-orcs, or half-breeds? Given that they assign no status to each other, does this cross species, or do they draw the line at taking suggestions from 'others.'

One the one hand, if they are as egalitarian as they sound, they seem like they would be very responsive to outsider influence (which would make them fodder for manipulation by dark elves, ogre magi, etc.).

On the other hand, if they temper 'everybody is equal' with 'but only orcs count' then that might change their traditional role in D&D, as the minions of darker powers (since they'd automatically react against attempts to manipulate them from other races, or even fellow orcs who seem to be taking advice from other races, or even perhaps fellow orcs who aren't acting 'orcish enough'). Indeed, a cunning adversary who has learned of their system might 'frame' a particularly clever or effective orc by making it appear as if he's receiving guidance from another race, making all of his suggestions suspect (and quite likely getting him lynched by an angry mob).

 

[Stoat]

Groovy idea! I like the concept of all-night, drunken argument-debates that eventually lead to consensus and action. It's different, but if an appropriate level of violence remains in the system it'll still feel orky.

You might consider changing your terminology, though. Time Guard sounds a little too formal and Empath sounds a little too touchy-feely to me. I'd shoot for a more brutish feel with the names. Maybe change Time Guard to Skull-Cracker (cracking skulls keeps folks on the agenda!) and maybe go with Shaman or Seer instead of Empath. I'm also unclear how an individual Orc attains these positions. (I'd consider making Skull-Cracker a self-appointed job, anybody who wanted to, could crack some skulls and move the conversation along).

 

[chronoplasm]

I think the orcs should have a healthy distrust of outsiders but without blinding themselves to the potential benefits that an outsider might be able to bring.
I think orcs should be hesitant when it comes to allowing any outsider into their decision making process, but if someone like a dark powerful wizard comes along with some ideas they can all get behind, I think the orcs would be open to hearing his/her suggestions.

Stoat: I like your name ideas.
I think the orcs would be able to attain these positions simply by nominating themselves and then everybody who doesn't want that orc to have the position comes up and tries to beat that orc up. All the orcs that do want that orc to have the position will pull the attacking orcs off.

 

[chronoplasm]

"Me got idea for law! Me say, we Orks say anyting we want! Sumwun try to tell Ork not say sumting, we beat 'im! Yu dunn laik wut Ork say? Tuff tookies!"

"Hoo got beef wit dat?! Aye or nay!"