D&D 5E (2024) Brainstorming ways to fix ranger with new spells.

[Minigiant]

burning a 3rd level slot for extra 2 attacks is probably not worth is. that is 15-20 extra damage to the target

@Horwath @Zardnaar @mellored

How many attacks would be worth a 3rd level slot and 1 action without being a must have?

 

[Minigiant]

I don't think Rangers need new spells, what they need are more spell options. The problem would be solved if Rangers had access to the entire Bard and Wizard spell lists, in addition to the current Ranger spells.

Outside of the same ones EK use and maybe Spider Climb... its not much help.

 

[Horwath]

@Horwath @Zardnaar @mellored

How many attacks would be worth a 3rd level slot and 1 action without being a must have?

ranger on average attacks for 1d8+5+1d6(HM), let's say 70% hit chance, 5% crit.
that comes down to 9,5 damage per attack
once extra attack per spell level on top of your Attack action might be a good spell.
1+1/spell level if you really want to push it into S-tier spell,

and knock it down to 1st level spell that can also be casted by using Favored enemy extra casting of HM.

 

[Minigiant]

ranger on average attacks for 1d8+5+1d6(HM), let's say 70% hit chance, 5% crit.
that comes down to 9,5 damage per attack
once extra attack per spell level on top of your Attack action might be a good spell.
1+1/spell level if you really want to push it into S-tier spell,

and knock it down to 1st level spell that can also be casted by using Favored enemy extra casting of HM.

So you are saving 6 attacks for a 1 action, level 3 spell slot?

 

[Horwath]

So you are saving 6 attacks for a 1 action, level 3 spell slot?

that is expected 57 damage at 9th level, and you can do it twice per day.
if too much that can be reduced to 5 attacks at 47,5 expected damage.
5th level wizard will do 28 damage with a fireball on several opponents and everyone is saying that fireball is not that great of a spell. I mean, it is if you can catch 10-15 targets in it.

or maybe have spell as Bonus action:
your next Attack action on this turn is made with extra 3(or 4) attacks.

that way it prevents your from using HM and this spell on the same turn.
requires a turn of setup.

 

[mellored]

and knock it down to 1st level spell that can also be casted by using Favored enemy extra casting of HM.

That just encourage multiclassing and hurt the ranger. Ranger 1/Druid 19 would could attack 10 times with Shillelagh.

We need level 3/4/5 spells unique to the ranger.
Not level 1 spells that scale with slots.

 

[mellored]

@Horwath @Zardnaar @mellored

How many attacks would be worth a 3rd level slot and 1 action without being a must have?

Scorching Ray at 3rd is 2d6 * 4 attacks = 28
And 28 / (1d8+5) = 2.94
So 3 attacks to match Scorching Ray.

And if you havs HM running, it goes to 38 damage. Compared to a 28 damage fireball or lighting bolt.

So yea, 3 attacks seems good. Thought it should probably have something for two weapon fighting too.

 

[Zardnaar]

@Horwath @Zardnaar @mellored

How many attacks would be worth a 3rd level slot and 1 action without being a must have?

One Extra attack probably a bonus action lvl 1 spell. Snakes swiftness from 3E.

If it lasts a minute probably lvl 3, 2 extra attacks lvl 3 or 5 if its 1 minute.

Probably.

 

[Minigiant]

So what do you think of these?

Option 1​

3rd Level Transmutation
Casting Time: 1 Bonus Action
Range: Self
Components: V
Duration: Instantaneous

When you cast the spell, you can make two attacks with a weapon that you have equipped.

At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 4th level or higher, you make one additional attack for each slot level above 3rd.

Option 2​

3rd Level Transmutation
Casting Time: 1 Action
Range: Self
Components: V
Duration: Instantaneous

When you cast the spell, you can make five attacks with a weapon that you are wielding.

At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 4th level or higher, you can make one additional attack.

Option 3​

3rd Level Transmutation
Casting Time: 1 Bonus Action
Range: Self
Components: V
Duration: Instantaneous

When you cast the spell, you gain an additional Action. That action can be used to take only the Attack, Dash, or Disengage action.