Branstorming for ENnies 2003 -- improvements, changes, etc

[ColonelHardisson]

Clark, I understand your reasoning, but...WotC made the material available that's in the SRD. Speaking as a fan, that's why I would consider them a "default" d20 company. Without them, none of this would be possible. It seems unfair to then exclude them.

Clark's company is a good example of why WotC should be allowed to enter. Necromancer Games' products are easily of comparable quality to WotC's products. There is no reason why they shouldn't be directly compared to WotC. If NG, or any other company, can consistently compete with WotC in the ENnies, I imagine that more and more people will be drawn to them. That's the benefit, I believe, of WotC being eligible to enter. Without WotC, it sorta seems like it would be a contest to pick the "best of the rest." Let me empasize this: I saw a lot of material that was easily the equal of WotC's material. That's why I feel WotC should remain.

 

[Lady Dragon]

It has occured to me that a lot of people are negatively prejudicied toward WoTC and won't vote for them regardless of the product or how good it is simply because they don't want WoTC to win so I think that this does offset some of the yes votes that they get from people that vote for them because they aren't familiar with all of the products and vote for what they know.

As for what Orcus said about WoTC not having to follow the D20 "rules" that everyone else has to follow It is my opinion that most of WoTC's books do in fact (perhaps by luck) follow these rules and maybe the individual products that don't adhere (in the opinions of the judges) could be disqualified rather than disqualifying the whole company.

I think in future years they will continue to get many awards but I think they will tend to dominate certain catagories and there own entries could cancel each other out and a third (or forth )dark horse could imerge especially since as I said there are many out there that won't vote for WoTC no matter what.

To slightly change the subject a lot of people are upset about the campaign setting catagory saying that Scarred Lands: Ghelspad should have won but if any book got screwed by OA it was Rokugan since they were both technically about the same world I think If OA hadn't been there as a choice then Rokugan would have won instead but that's just my Opinion.(I do like Scarred lands by the way.)

 

[Dextra]

sleep-deprived reply

WotC has market saturation and the big budget to produce impeccable product. When they produce a book, tens of thousands of people read it. Their share of any popular vote is huge. Should they be banned from a fan-based appraisal for being too successful? I don't think so.
BUT (and please forgive me, we just drove 17 hours to get home, and I've slept all of 3 hours in that time, so I may not be too coherent)...
I personally would like to see a separate entry for PDFs vs print (yes, huge personal bias here, forgive me). And I agree that a best indie publisher would be great. And a critic's choice or weighting factor. Heck, when my 10 year-old daughter could predict who was going to win each award (hmmm, Monte Cook, or WotC), I think that maybe that's an indicator.
Who knows, maybe WotC will decline to enter in the future, sort of like Spielberg in the Academy Awards- it's a given their stuff is excellent, let's see who comes in OTHER than them.
We were nominated for two awards, received honourable mention for another. We WON an award, the supreme underdog contender. We were in excellent company, and any one who was nominated earned the right to hold their head high.

Depends on who you think the beneficiaries are of the whole awards process. Yes, companies win awards. But this is also for the fans. Russ and I heard pretty loud and clear that fans wanted to see a contest between all of the publishers who were willing to participate, and that's what they got. Now that they've seen the results maybe over the next several months we'll hear otherwise.

If we do hear otherwise, then that's a whole different thing to deal with. How do you exclude one company? Especially when that company is why the fansite exists in the first place?

As I've mentioned earlier I think there's a way we can "all win" in a sense but I'd like to hold off until we get some more overall input. We haven't heard, for instance, from the publishers who were actually nominated this year -- maybe they liked being lumped in with WotC.

 

[Blacksad]

The other two products, I take umbrage with, and think they won those categories based on name recognition. Do you really want to hear arguments, 'cause I can make them? But it's largely not the point, since we accepted from the get-go that the fan nomination was a popularity contest, not a critical overview.

or confusion, to have both Rokugan and OA for best campaign setting is somewhat strange, it is supposed to be the same campaign setting!

If you want to correct the system, as someone suggested, you could tick the product you own or have read or played through, and the winner would be the one who get the best ratio of: (number of votes)/(number of voter who owned the product) that would resolve the problem.

 

[EricNoah]

Re: sleep-deprived reply

Who knows, maybe WotC will decline to enter in the future, sort of like Spielberg in the Academy Awards- it's a given their stuff is excellent, let's see who comes in OTHER than them.

Ding ding! You figured out Eric's "everyone can win" solution.

 

[Orcus]

Not that I have a problem with this approach personally, but you do realize that would exclude Kalamar and Ravenloft, don't you?

Yes. And, as I mentioned, possibly the EQ RPG as well since that is only OGL, not d20.

It is my opinion that most of WoTC's books do in fact (perhaps by luck) follow these rules and maybe the individual products that don't adhere (in the opinions of the judges) could be disqualified rather than disqualifying the whole company.

That just isnt correct. Do WotC books contain some content that also happens to be in the SRD? Yes. Are they constrained to follow the licenses? No. That makes a big difference. It guarantees that they are content leaders. We cant use the content in new and different ways until the content is in the SRD (or the gentleperson's agreement).

And I am not asking for WotC to be kept out. I am saying any product that is not produced under either the OGL or d20 licenses should not be considered for an ENnie. When WotC makes a product under either of the licenses, that product can be considered. To date it has not done so. Thus, since it has not created any d20 products under the license it should also not be eligible for Best Publisher--since it doesnt publish products under the license. When they do, they can be considered.

ENworld needs to decide what these awards stand for. If these are the 3E awards, then my comments above are not applicable. If they are the d20 awards, then that should mean "uses the d20 license" or WotC has an unfair advantage. And what about purely OGL, non-d20 products?

To me (and maybe I am wrong) the Ennies are the opposite of the Origins awards. The Ennies are for d20. Let WotC's products win Origins awards. But until they use the licenses we all have to use, then those products shouldnt be considered for ENnies.

Clark

 

[Psion]

I'm actually beginning to like the concept, Clark. If for no other reason than I think it would stengthen the d20 license and open content community. And community is what ENworld is all about, right?

 

[Orcus]

Psion-

I agree! That is my point. The ENnies are not an industry wide award. They are an award for this community. I think products need to either be OGL or d20 license products to qualify for ENnie awards. Nothing is stopping WotC from making such a product. And when they do, that product should be fully considered.

Clark

 

[kingpaul]

Feel free to post comments about how things could be improved for next year.

Let me be a judge next year?

Seriously though, I thought it was handled very well...e'en though I couldn't make GenCon.

I think WotC should be allowed to compete, as they are the yardstick most others measure themselves against. With this in mind, it probably wouldn't hurt to have a "runner-up" in each category.

PDF only categories would be interesting...but would probably inundate the judges unduly.

 

[kingpaul]

I agree! That is my point. The ENnies are not an industry wide award. They are an award for this community. I think products need to either be OGL or d20 license products to qualify for ENnie awards. Nothing is stopping WotC from making such a product. And when they do, that product should be fully considered.

However, if you make it an OGL/d20 only award, that makes a "fake rule" (taking Eric's words...in vain? ), excluding WotC (at the present. Would you then put the SRD up for an award?