Branstorming for ENnies 2003 -- improvements, changes, etc

[ColonelHardisson]

The problem I think is that the best edited products are the one you don't notice. It's obvious when a product is badly edited. But when there are no mistakes, I don't sit and say "Wow, what a great editing job they did."

This is actually something that the judges discussed about an editing category.

 

[JoeGKushner]

The judges from last year basically unanimously said that one was too hard to judge. We had no clue how to do it. I will be seeking any input on what other organizations (not just game publisher awards) use as criteria for a category like this. I sure feel like it's a legit category.

Typos, sentences that make no sense, missing material, references to things not in the book, etc... This is an easy one to use. Heck, we know AEG wouldn't have won this year eh? Poor Jim.

 

[JoeGKushner]

First off, its not that I'm biased against WotC (I do work for them, so I truly have the company's best interests at heart), but I am disappointed with this year's results. To make average D20 companies, White Wolf, and WotC play on a level playing field, in my opinion, just isn't fair. Its like those Quiznos commercials and their unfair matchups.

That said, congrats to all at Green Ronin, Malhavoc Press, and Ambient for making the cut.

I disagree with ya here. What is an average company? Is it one that employees a former WoTC employee as Green Ronin and Malhavok do? Is it a web only company like Ambient? Is it Fast Forward, which has a ton of proucts with poor editing in hardcover? Is it White Wolf/Sword & Sorcery Stuidos who has a full color hardcover Everquest? Is it AEG with Spycraft or Farscape?

 

[Lady Dragon]

Perhaps the awards need to go to the writers of the books instead of the companies. At the very least there sould be an award for best writer and best artist for a single year either on individual products or on a years worth of work.

As for editing Its almost impossible to judge.Yes you can say a certain product had bad editing and exclude them but with the rest that had good editing and there are bound to be many how can we judge what they did or didn't do correctly since we don't know what got left on the cutting board floor.

I know its getting complicated but what about things like best spell,best prestige class,best monster etc. These are small enough that they could even be posted on the web so that voters could read them.

Finally what I feel is missing is best product regardless of catagory.

But I agree you can't just exclude WoTC because they are big if there products are the best they deserve to win. They cared enough to enter they deserve to win also if there products are the best.

As for Oriental Adventures is it a campaign setting or a rules supplement. An argument can be made for either but I feel in spirit it is a rules supplement and belonged in that catagory

 

[Blacksad]

I'm against any weighted votes after the judges selection, the ENnies have to stay a fan award, not some professional award.

Also on the topic of WotC always getting the first place, expand the award to have a gold ENnie for the first, and a silver ENnie for the second, with company allowed to have only one award per category.

This is what was done with the olympic games, at the beggining there was only a first place, then two, and curently three.

 

[Nightfall]

Which is what I felt it was too Lady. I just don't think it's really a setting. It's just a bunch of figures and rules stuck together with no cohesive feel. Now if one of the OTHERS had one, I think I'd take it better.

Btw Coln, thanks for backing me up on this. Lord of the Iron Fortress was alright but it's not what I'd call evocative.

Medaling I think COULD work. This way everyone's a winner AND the gold medalist still feel like they got the best result.

 

[DPGDarrin]

What is an average company? Is it one that employees a former WoTC employee as Green Ronin and Malhavok do? Is it a web only company like Ambient? Is it Fast Forward, which has a ton of proucts with poor editing in hardcover? Is it White Wolf/Sword & Sorcery Stuidos who has a full color hardcover Everquest? Is it AEG with Spycraft or Farscape?

Agreed, defining an average company is probably one of the most difficult things about this process. I think the most fair way to do it would be to go off sales. Of course very few or none of these companies are going to disclose their sales stats. Even so, common sense dictates that based on market penetration and company name recognition, WotC and White Wolf have the odds stacked in their favor. Its one thing to lump everybody into the same category to be fair, but at the same time, most of the companies that are being judged haven't been around for nearly the length of time WotC/TSR has.

Another point to consider. WotC has a staff of hundreds, while the average D20 company has a staff of ten or less. Of these ten people, most of them have full time jobs that are completely unrelated to gaming and they publish on the side. Is it really fair to expect them to produce as high a quality piece of work as WotC, which has the staff, the time, the budget, and the experience to make better products?

At any rate, on a level playing field, I more or less agree with the results. WotC makes the highest quality D20 products in almost every case, which is one of the reasons I love working there. On the other hand, I know how much blood sweat and tears goes into the production of a non-WotC D20 product, and how one person in a small publishing company ends up wearing the same hats as 5 of the people at WotC.

It will be interesting to see where this goes next year. I think the addition of more categories will be helpful.

 

[CrazyMage]

More chairs!!
Course next year it's a whole new set-up, so there ought to be room, better sound, laser effects, clowns with balloons, etc.

The other question is tricky--how to "level" the playing field and do you want to do that by some arbitrary means? Good luck on that one.

 

[drothgery]

I for one own most of the products that were nominated and I agree with most of these choices.If these small companies don't want to compete with WoTC then they should get out of the game.

WoTC did not win in every category they only won where they deserved to. I would like to here the arguments of anyone who thinks that Manual of the planes,Oriental adventures and Call of Chtulhu are not the best in there perspective categories.

Well, I voted for WoT instead of CoC, but I'm a WoT junkie and it's still WotC. There were quite a few categories where I didn't vote; I figured if I hadn't done more than casually flipped through at least two entries, I didn't know enough to vote there. Since I generally don't buy adventurers or monster books, I didn't even think about voting for one, for example.

 

[Lady Dragon]

White Wolf won one award I would hardly say that they had all the cards stacked in their favor. As for WoTC the only one they probably didn't deserve was for campaign setting since OA is really more of a rules supplement than a setting. The debate over the cover art is silly since art is subjective both pieces are nice and of high quality.

IMO the awards are more legitamte when everyone is included if you exclude certain companies the winners can say I won but I don't know if I could have beat the big guys therefore the award is not legitamate.

It is possible to have a catagory that would be best product by a small company (small would have to be defined) but most likely that same product would also win or be runner up in a second catagory so the truth would be known anyhow. Though it could give recognition to an excellent product that didn't have the resources that the big guys have.

The most important thing however I think this needs to stay fan oriented in some way don't turn it into another Origins Awards run by industry insiders who have their own agendas and sometimes snobbish opinions of what quality really is.I'm tired of hearing about obscure books nobody bought or cares about winning just because so called experts say it is excellent.