brash strike - too good or simply good?

[Baumi]

It's a nice offensive Power, but I wouldn't trade Cleave or Tide of Iron from my Dragonborn Axe-Fighter for it. The damage and to-hit bonus is nice, but I want to live as long as possible, so giving combat advantage counters that Idea and Tide of Iron and Cleave give me effects that goes beyond damage (hit a second target or position the enemy).

 

[Styracosaurus]

Brash Strike grants a -2 to AC only against the opponent that you attacked.
You get +2 to hit and Str and Con to damage (most will use the appropriate weapon). Constitution works towards Hammer and Axe feats so there is strong synergy building up damage output.

I like the power, but I think that the penalty should be expanded to keep it in check.

You could make the -2 to AC work as a general penalty vs. everyone. Alternatively, you could make the -2 work on all defenses vs. the opponent attacked.

 

[Black Knight Irios]

Brash Strike grants a -2 to AC only against the opponent that you attacked.
You get +2 to hit and Str and Con to damage (most will use the appropriate weapon). Constitution works towards Hammer and Axe feats so there is strong synergy building up damage output.

I like the power, but I think that the penalty should be expanded to keep it in check.

You could make the -2 to AC work as a general penalty vs. everyone. Alternatively, you could make the -2 work on all defenses vs. the opponent attacked.

By using Brash Strike you grant CA to your target, so the target gains a +2 bonus to hit against all your defenses.

1) dual strike means you are using an off hand weapon (unless you are using the clearly broken double weapons in adventurer's vault, but that's the weapon not the power)- this means less damage even if both hit.

You can use two Waraxes(AV) or any other combination of one handed weapons if you have Two-Blade Warrior as a feat.

2) you do not get strength bonus to damage - this becomes a bigger and bigger deal as you go up in level.

Which becomes less important with higher levels because you can stack so many static bonuses besides STR.

3) brash strike gives an additional bonus to damage with con making the damage disparity even larger.

At the first few levels or so. Damagewise Dual Strike and Twin Strike are the most damaging single target at-will attack powers.

DPR, level 1, STR 18, COn 16, vs AC 18, Battleaxe

For most at will ; 4.75
With Brash Strike ; 7.5

Same fighter but using a longsword

For most at will; 4.675
With Brash Strike; 5.525

Don't compare dpr only at lvl1, you might draw wrong conclusions.

 

[Mengu]

It's good, but I'm not sure if it's too good, with one exceptional combination.

I think the power is made for dwarves. They give up an attack bonus for not having a high strength, and they give up an attack bonus for wielding an axe or hammer. Brash Strike basically gets those bonuses back, and at the cost of giving up CA, gives them a chance to do a bit of extra damage. For any weapon talent dwarf fighter this seems pretty reasonable. Good, but not too good.

For sword and board fighters, it essentially gives them the choice of becoming a great weapon fighter when they feel like it, essentially giving up the shield bonus. If I was building a sword and board fighter, I'd stick with some of the other powers, but it's not a bad choice.

For a Battlerager focusing on defense, it's a rather counterproductive choice. Crushing Surge and Tide of Iron (or Cleave) are probably better options, since you probably want to be wielding a sword anyway.

For a Battlerager focusing on damage, it truely turns them into strikers (which should not happen with an at-will power). They make up some of the loss in attack bonus with the +2 from brash strike, and deal striker-like damage, while suffering from a bit of front line striker fragility (if you've seen a barbarian or two-weapon ranger in action, you know what I'm talking about). At first level a battlerager dwarf with a mordenkrad is dealing around 2d5+13 damage with an at-will power (if he has temp hit points which typically does not seem to be a problem). That's better damage than the barbarian who is supposed to be a striker (though we haven't seen all the options for the barbarian yet). A tweaked out rogue can match that damage but he has to have combat advantage. The only saving grace of such a brutal attack from a defender, is that he will be sitting at an effective AC 14, but that's why he has all those temporary hit points.

Of course, take away the BRV build, and suddenly the problem lessens significantly.

 

[chaotix42]

The dwarf fighter IMC uses this, and it's awesome to be sure - 1d10 + 19 at lvl 11 w/Power Attack, Dwarven Weapon Training & +3 stout craghammer, or something? Pretty sure that's it. He has a 20 Str & Con so he's already pretty built for the power.

take away the BRV build

Guilty (after the dwarf spent a few sessions testing it out, too). Maybe that's why I don't feel bad about letting him use the power?

 

[Mort]

You can use two Waraxes(AV) or any other combination of one handed weapons if you have Two-Blade Warrior as a feat..

Yes you can but as they are not off-hand weapons you give up both the + to hit and the damage bonus associated with tempest technique if you do.

Brash strike is good, but it becomes problematic if your DM uses lurker or skirmisher type monsters. It also becomes problematic when facing creatures with area attacks or other abilities, which normally don't hit as often but will when you concede constant combat advantage.

At high levels, that +2 you're giving up matters a huge deal and can mean the difference between being stunned or getting another round. It's amazing how often those little penalties/benefits can stack up, especially in longer fights in paragon/epic tiers.

You're only giving combat advantage to the opponent you used brash strike on, so this is not likely to be an issue.

 

[Black Knight Irios]

Yes you can but as they are not off-hand weapons you give up both the + to hit and the damage bonus associated with tempest technique if you do.

Just choose FWT(1h) and you lose nothing instead you gain, at least when you will build your char around wielding 1h weapons.

 

[Mort]

It's a nice offensive Power, but I wouldn't trade Cleave or Tide of Iron from my Dragonborn Axe-Fighter for it. The damage and to-hit bonus is nice, but I want to live as long as possible, so giving combat advantage counters that Idea and Tide of Iron and Cleave give me effects that goes beyond damage (hit a second target or position the enemy).

I certainly see your point that effects other than damage are important. That said, 1 at will that can bring the damage is a pretty good idea, especially for long fights. Having only cleave and tide of iron may make you too dependant on strikers (of course if your party has several this may actually be a good idea).

I see people's point that brash strike doesn't work for a high AC, defensive build - it certainly goes counter to it. But then, I'm not sure a high AC defensive build is optimal for a defender. When your schtick is "try to hit me instead" it makes sense to seem hittable.

And again, if you're not using one of the special effect weapons, brash strike is good but not great. But if your a high con fighter using an axe or hammer (e.g. dwarf) it seems to be a no-brainer.

 

[Mort]

Just choose FWT(1h) and you lose nothing instead you gain, at least when you will build your char around wielding 1h weapons.

I'm at work and am not sure what FWT(1h) means. But what I was getting at is: these feats let you use a 1 handed weapon with a two bladed style (as in 2 1 handed weapons at once) but the weapons do not gain the 1 handed property. As such: no bonus to hit or to damage so the fighter loses out.

 

[chaotix42]

I certainly see your point that effects other than damage are important. That said, 1 at will that can bring the damage is a pretty good idea, especially for long fights. Having only cleave and tide of iron may make you too dependant on strikers (of course if your party has several this may actually be a good idea).

I like this point. Our battles are already pretty lengthy so I don't see much harm in letting the fighter do more damage to speed things up a little.

FWT(1h) is Fighter Weapon Talent - one-handed weapons.