Breaking Down All The "Actions"

[WCT-1]

Howdy Folks:

Truth be told, the last time I played organized D&D was about 14 years ago. Combat seemed relatively simple back then. In any event, I have recently become quite interested in the "more evolved" 3rd Edition. Although I have read a number of the available rule books, I have no practical game experience. Seems odd to spend all that time reading, but not playing doesn't? Well, I have to understand it before I can teach anybody. This of course leads to my question about the rules. I've found the combat section of the PHB to be a little unclear regarding "Actions."

Can all full round actions be categorized into one of the following situations?

1. Standard Action + Move
2. Move + Standard Action
3. Standard Action + Move Equivalent
4. Move Equivalent + Standard Action
5. Move Equivalent + Move
6. Move + Move Equivalent
7. Double Move
8. Move Equivalent + Move Equivalent
9. Full Round Action + 5' Step
10. 5' Step + Full Round Action

For the sack of simplicity, I am assuming a reasonable number of free actions (2 or so) can be performed, and that none of the characters/creatures are hasted. Based on the definitions listed below, I am uncertain whether #5 and #6 are allowed. Finally, under what circumstance would one want to take a 5' step during their full round action?

"Action: A character activity. Actions are subdivided into the following categories according to the time required to perform them (from most to least): full-round actions. standard actions, partial actions, move-equivalent actions, and free actions. [PHB 275]"

"Full-Round Action: Full round actions consume all of a character's effort during a round. The only movement possible in conjunction with a full-round action is a 5-foot step, which can occur before, after, or during the action. Some full round actions (as specified in their description) do not allow even this much movement. When using a full-round action to cast a spell whose casting time is 1 full round, the spell is not completed until the beginning of the casters next turn. [PHB 278]"

"Standard Action: The most basic type of action. Standard actions allow a character to perform an activity (attack, cast a 1-action spell, use a skill, etc) and move a distance less than or equal to his or her speed. The character can move before or after the activity. [PHB 282]"

"Move-Equivalent Action: An action that takes place of moving at normal speed. A character can take a move-equivalent action instead of moving at normal speed in a standard action or as a partial action, or two move-equivalent actions instead of a double move. [PHB 279]"


Thanks in advance for the comments.

Peace and chicken grease,
WCT-1

 

[Zhure]

1. Standard Action + Move
2. Move + Standard Action
3. Standard Action + Move Equivalent
4. Move Equivalent + Standard Action
5. Move Equivalent + Move
6. Move + Move Equivalent
7. Double Move
8. Move Equivalent + Move Equivalent
9. Full Round Action + 5' Step
10. 5' Step + Full Round Action

....

Finally, under what circumstance would one want to take a 5' step during their full round action?

Looks good.

I would note that anytime you don't actually move (#3, #4, #8) you can also take a 5'-step.

To answer as to why you'd want to make a 5'-step during a full round action depends a lot on circumstance. The most common usage I can think of is when your first attack in a full round series of attacks kills your first foe and you want to attack a second foe, or make a positional change to take advantage of flanking.

Hope that helps,
Greg

 

[The_lone_gunman]

Well you basically have it right:

1. Standard Action + Move

This would equal two moves. A Standard action is an "activity" and a move. They are not mutually exclusive. If you perform a "Standard Action" you will be moving.

2. Move + Standard Action

See above.

3. Standard Action + Move Equivalent

This is also not techically correct. You can perform a move equivalent, and then a partial action. As I said above, the Standard action is an "activity" and a move. So if you added a move equivalent action onto that, that would be too many (unless you were hasted .

4. Move Equivalent + Standard Action

See above

5. Move Equivalent + Move
6. Move + Move Equivalent
7. Double Move
8. Move Equivalent + Move Equivalent
9. Full Round Action + 5' Step
10. 5' Step + Full Round Action

Rest of these are all correct.

2 Free actions is a good amount, it is what I use. 5 and 6 are perfectly allowed.

Taking a 5 foot step with a full round action is highly usefull. Some examples:

Attack your foe, kill him, then 5' step to the next one.
Double attack one person, then 5' step to threaten another.
5' step to position yourself into a flanking position.
5' step to unflank yourself between two enemies.

I would break your list like this:

1. Standard Action
2. Partial action
3. Partial action + 5' step
4. Partial action + Move Equivalent + 5' step
5. Move Equivalent + Move
6. Double Move
7. Run
8. Move Equivalent + Move Equivalent + 5' step
9. Full Round Action + 5' Step
10. Misc Action (Total Defense or some feats allow them like Improved Disarm).

You use partial actions in many situations, such as:

Ready actions are partial actions.
When hasted.
Suprise rounds.
You are slowed, staggered, or constrained in some way.

It is kind of confusing at first. We did combat all wrong probably for the first month or so. I suggest you start playing, and as you have confusion to rules, ask on the boards here to get clarification. Playing with the rules goes a long way to understanding them.

Good luck and welcome back to D&D, you will love it!

TLG

 

[dr_nukem]

given all that...

Ok, with all that explaining done, 1 -- how does this example fit into your numbered system AND 2 -- is it a valid option?

Assume all required feats/skills.

In one round, could a character...

1) Hide and Spring Attack Move (ie, move while hidden)
2) Attack
3) Hide and Spring Attack Move (same as #1)

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

technically...

1) a full-round action is that and only that: a full-round action (i.e. a full-attack, a spontaneously metamagicked spell...). it can't really be broken down into smaller parts.

2) there is no such thing as "standard action + move" (or vice-versa). a standard action includes a move/move-equivalent action. you may also swap out the normal action part for another move/move-equivalent action (which would give you #5-6-7-8 in your post)

#9-10 are also accurate.

if you want to think of a "standard action" as just the action part, then #1-2-3-4 will work. just be careful with that view-point. it could lead to some [more?] confusion within the combat rules.

 

[WCT-1]

technically...

1) a full-round action is that and only that: a full-round action (i.e. a full-attack, a spontaneously metamagicked spell...). it can't really be broken down into smaller parts.

Whoops. I was trying to distinguish between actions that happen in a "standard" round as opposed to a surprise round for example. I apologize for the poor choice of words in my initial question.

Thanks for the input everyone. I plan on running some combat situations to get a better feel of it. If I have the jist of your comments, then I suppose the following statements are true:

A standard action can consume an entire round just as a full-round action. One of the "principle" differences between the two actions is the relative limitation on movement.

Examples:
1. Attack once + 20' move
2. Multiple attacks + 5' step

But what happens when the PCs/Monsters are engaged in combat and they have only one attack (i.e., lvl 1)? In other words, they have no reason to move because their opponent is right in front of them. Do they technically take a standard action and chose a movement of 0'? Does this consume their entire round? My general impression is yes, because they voluntarily chose not to move. Is their a more efficient way to manage your actions in this situation?

Thanks again in advance,
WCT-1

 

[gnfnrf]

I find that, when teaching the action rules, you need a term for the chunk of a standard action that is the 'good part'.

The standard action minus a move, or most partial actions minus a 5' step, I call a thunk.

If you replace standard action with thunk, your categories seem just fine.

Note that a thunk is ALMOST a partial action, if you consider the 5' movement separately. You can spend your thunk to ready a partial action, in fact. However, the rules seem to make these distinct.

As for when to take a 5' step during a full-round action, moving to engage more targets during a Full Attack (or a Supreme Cleave) can be very powerful.

--
gnfnrf