Breaking down the CR/EL numbers
(This post appears on the EN World and Monte Cook's message boards. My apologies if it smells like spiced ham.)
Folks,
The party I DM and I are having trouble evaluating the party's effective level and establishing other related numbers. Our party contains
2 3rd level characters (an elven ranger and a gnome wizard)
3 2nd level characters (a nezumi ranger, a vanara wiz/OA shaman, and a halfling fighter/rogue)
1 1st level character (a half-orc cleric)
1. What is the party's effective level? The question really is: how does one determine the party's effective level for parties containing other than four characters? (The formula on DMG 101 says it's 13/6, or 2; I consider it to be 13/4, or 3.)
2. If the party were an encounter for a different party, what is the EL of the party? (I calculate approximately 7 - that is, the party would represent a drain of 20% resources for all and seriously threaten one of four 7th-level characters.)
3. What EL is appropriate for this party to face (use ~20% of the party's resources and seriously threaten one member of the party)? (I believe an EL of 3 is appropriate.)
Here's some legwork I did to help us out:
ASSUMPTION
The Challenge Rating system uses four characters as the basis for determining EL, the party's effective level, and experience awards.
DEFINITIONS
I've tried to isolate the terms used by the system. There is no glossary in
the DMG that provides a convenient definition for each term. The Players
Handbook was written before the DMG was complete, so I'll avoid that unless
I can't define the terms using the DMG.
++ CR (Challenge Rating) - a numeric representation of the amount of
trouble a single monster (or trap) is expected to give a group of four
adventurers.
"A Challenge Rating is a measure of how easy or difficult a monster or trap
is to overcome." (DMG pg 165)
"A monster's Challenge Rating tells you the level of the party for which
that monster is a good challenge. A monster of CR 5 is an appropriate
challenge for a group of four 5th-level characters. If the characters are
higher level than the monster, they get fewer XP because the monster should
be easy to defeat. Likewise, if the party level (the average of the
character levels of every member of the party) is lower than a monster's
Challenge Rating, the PCs get a greater reward." (DMG pg 100, last
paragraph)
"Parties with five or more members can often take on monsters with higher
CRs, and parties of three or fewer are challenged by monsters with lower
CRs. Nevertheless, XP awards depend on the group's average level." (DMG pg
101)
++ EL (Encounter Level) - a numeric representation of the amount of
trouble a group of monsters or traps or monsters and traps is expected to
give a group of four adventurers.
"Obviously, if one monster is a given Challenge Rating, more than one
monster is a greater challenge than that. You can use Table 4-1: Encounter
Numbers to determine the Encounter Level of a group of monsters, as well as
to determine how many monsters equate to a given Encounter Level (useful in
balancing an encounter with a PC party)." (DMG pg 101)
"To balance an encounter to a party, determine the party's effective level
(the average of all their character levels).[1] You may want the party's
level to match the level of the encounter, so find that number[2] in the
"Encounter Level" column. Then look across that line to find the CR of the
creature type that you want to use in that encounter. Once you have found
it, look to the top of that column to find the number of creatures
that makes a balanced encounter for the party." (DMG pg 101)
NOTES on encounter level:
[1] I am of the opinion this is not written as clearly as they intended. For
example, ten 2nd-level characters have an party effective level of 2, as
does a party composed of four 2nd-level characters. Using this system as
written both parties should be challenged by the same encounter: one CR 2 or
3 monster or trap. This must be accounted for somehow. My method is to total
the character levels in the party and divide by four to arrive at an
approximate party effective level. It breaks down at large spreads, which is
why it's never better than an estimate.
[2] I have inferred "that number" refers to the party's effective level.
++ Effective[3] Party Level (EPL) - a numeric representation of the
party's approximate power level based on character levels.
"A monster's challenge rating tells you the level of the party for which
that monster is a good challenge. A monster of CR 5 is an appropriate
challenge for a group of four 5th-level characters. If the characters are
higher level than the monster, they get fewer XP because the monster should
be easy to defeat. Likewise, if the party level (the average of the
character levels of every member of the party) is lower than a monster's
Challenge Rating, the PCs get a greater reward." (DMG pg 100, last
paragraph)
NOTES on effective party level:
[3] I have frequently erred and called this the "average" party level.
Technically and according to the rules, the two are the same. I do not
believe this was intended as illustrated above; taking it to the absurd
shows how this does not apply AND how my system breaks down: 100 2nd-level
characters has an effective party level of 2 - by the books. Using my rough
system generates a result of "50," meaning a CR 50 monster would use about
20% of the (100-character) 2nd level party's resources. That's absurd, as a
CR 50 creature would likely be untouchable by the individual second level
characters and would likely kill several each round.
(This post appears on the EN World and Monte Cook's message boards. My apologies if it smells like spiced ham.)
Folks,
The party I DM and I are having trouble evaluating the party's effective level and establishing other related numbers. Our party contains
2 3rd level characters (an elven ranger and a gnome wizard)
3 2nd level characters (a nezumi ranger, a vanara wiz/OA shaman, and a halfling fighter/rogue)
1 1st level character (a half-orc cleric)
1. What is the party's effective level? The question really is: how does one determine the party's effective level for parties containing other than four characters? (The formula on DMG 101 says it's 13/6, or 2; I consider it to be 13/4, or 3.)
2. If the party were an encounter for a different party, what is the EL of the party? (I calculate approximately 7 - that is, the party would represent a drain of 20% resources for all and seriously threaten one of four 7th-level characters.)
3. What EL is appropriate for this party to face (use ~20% of the party's resources and seriously threaten one member of the party)? (I believe an EL of 3 is appropriate.)
Here's some legwork I did to help us out:
ASSUMPTION
The Challenge Rating system uses four characters as the basis for determining EL, the party's effective level, and experience awards.
DEFINITIONS
I've tried to isolate the terms used by the system. There is no glossary in
the DMG that provides a convenient definition for each term. The Players
Handbook was written before the DMG was complete, so I'll avoid that unless
I can't define the terms using the DMG.
++ CR (Challenge Rating) - a numeric representation of the amount of
trouble a single monster (or trap) is expected to give a group of four
adventurers.
"A Challenge Rating is a measure of how easy or difficult a monster or trap
is to overcome." (DMG pg 165)
"A monster's Challenge Rating tells you the level of the party for which
that monster is a good challenge. A monster of CR 5 is an appropriate
challenge for a group of four 5th-level characters. If the characters are
higher level than the monster, they get fewer XP because the monster should
be easy to defeat. Likewise, if the party level (the average of the
character levels of every member of the party) is lower than a monster's
Challenge Rating, the PCs get a greater reward." (DMG pg 100, last
paragraph)
"Parties with five or more members can often take on monsters with higher
CRs, and parties of three or fewer are challenged by monsters with lower
CRs. Nevertheless, XP awards depend on the group's average level." (DMG pg
101)
++ EL (Encounter Level) - a numeric representation of the amount of
trouble a group of monsters or traps or monsters and traps is expected to
give a group of four adventurers.
"Obviously, if one monster is a given Challenge Rating, more than one
monster is a greater challenge than that. You can use Table 4-1: Encounter
Numbers to determine the Encounter Level of a group of monsters, as well as
to determine how many monsters equate to a given Encounter Level (useful in
balancing an encounter with a PC party)." (DMG pg 101)
"To balance an encounter to a party, determine the party's effective level
(the average of all their character levels).[1] You may want the party's
level to match the level of the encounter, so find that number[2] in the
"Encounter Level" column. Then look across that line to find the CR of the
creature type that you want to use in that encounter. Once you have found
it, look to the top of that column to find the number of creatures
that makes a balanced encounter for the party." (DMG pg 101)
NOTES on encounter level:
[1] I am of the opinion this is not written as clearly as they intended. For
example, ten 2nd-level characters have an party effective level of 2, as
does a party composed of four 2nd-level characters. Using this system as
written both parties should be challenged by the same encounter: one CR 2 or
3 monster or trap. This must be accounted for somehow. My method is to total
the character levels in the party and divide by four to arrive at an
approximate party effective level. It breaks down at large spreads, which is
why it's never better than an estimate.
[2] I have inferred "that number" refers to the party's effective level.
++ Effective[3] Party Level (EPL) - a numeric representation of the
party's approximate power level based on character levels.
"A monster's challenge rating tells you the level of the party for which
that monster is a good challenge. A monster of CR 5 is an appropriate
challenge for a group of four 5th-level characters. If the characters are
higher level than the monster, they get fewer XP because the monster should
be easy to defeat. Likewise, if the party level (the average of the
character levels of every member of the party) is lower than a monster's
Challenge Rating, the PCs get a greater reward." (DMG pg 100, last
paragraph)
NOTES on effective party level:
[3] I have frequently erred and called this the "average" party level.
Technically and according to the rules, the two are the same. I do not
believe this was intended as illustrated above; taking it to the absurd
shows how this does not apply AND how my system breaks down: 100 2nd-level
characters has an effective party level of 2 - by the books. Using my rough
system generates a result of "50," meaning a CR 50 monster would use about
20% of the (100-character) 2nd level party's resources. That's absurd, as a
CR 50 creature would likely be untouchable by the individual second level
characters and would likely kill several each round.
