D&D 5E (2024) Breaking The Eldritch Knight (Eberron)

[ECMO3]

Without 13 strength longbow has disadvantage to hit.

Agree with everything else.

No it is 13 Dexterity, and the Heavy Crossbow has the same requirement.

Also even without the Dexterity you are at disadvantage at long range anyway.

 

[Zardnaar]

No it is 13 Dexterity, and the Heavy Crossbow has the same requirement.

Also even without the Dexterity you are at disadvantage at long range anyway.

Derp my bad.

 

[Ancoulainn]

Sorry, accidental duplicate!

 

[Ancoulainn]

I had not realized how much they improved Vicious Weapon in D&D 2024. +2d6 damage of the weapon's damage type is very good, better than Flame Tongue, as Fire Resistance is more common for creatures than magic bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing resistance.

For comparison, at most what damage can say a level 11 Fighter Battlemaster do with and without Action Surge?

Let's assume a Vicious Greatsword so 4d6 damage, Strength 20 giving +5 damage, with the Great Weapon Master feat for an additional +4 damage per attack. For Fighting Style select Great Weapon Fighting which across those 4d6 gives on average +2 damage. Battlemaster's superiority die improves to d10 at Fighter level 10, and I'll assume this is used to boost damage once on the regular Attack action and again on the Action Surge. And I'll assume that an additional Bonus Action attack can be made, either due to scoring a critical hit or taking down an opponent, for 7 attacks in total with Action Surge. If the Fighter's mage friend casts Haste on him, or he drinks a Potion of Haste, he can increase this to 8 attacks. So with 8 attacks, assuming that they all hit, no critical hits, we have 8x (4d6 + 5 STR + 4 GWM + 2 GWF) + 2d10 for Battlemaster maneuvers = 211 damage on average with Action Surge; or 5x (4d6 + 5 STR + 4 GWM + 2 GWF) + d10 for Battlemaster maneuver = 130.5 damage on average without Action Surge. (On top of that, Hex boosts those to average damage of 239 and 148 respectively, but it comes at the cost of using a Bonus Action to do so.) Without Haste, it is an average of 175 with Action Surge and 100 without Action Surge.

Zardnaar, where's the +7 from in your damage calculations? I assume Intelligence 20 for +5 damage and a +2 weapon? I wouldn't allow both a +2 weapon and +2d6 for Vicious, pick one, not both.

I think the damage that your proposed build is doing is excessive, and I wouldn't allow it as DM as it breaks the damage scaling curve for D&D and will overshadow other players (unless everyone min/maxes like this, in which case I'd still say, "No, go and have fun in a character build arena!"). The big problem is the damage riders: +2d6 from Vicious Weapon, +3d8 from Conjure Minor Elementals, and +2d6 when you use True Strike. If these overlap (i.e., pick the biggest, so +3d8) instead of stacking (+3d8 +2d6 + 2d6), then the game balance issue is solved. An alternate fix is to limit how many hits Conjure Minor Elementals can boost the damage on per turn - I'd limit it to 2 or 3 hits maximum.

With damage rider stacking disallowed, your build's damage output is reduced to the following 1d12 + 5 INT + 3 magic weapon + 2 Dueling + 3d8 CME = 30 on average with no criticals; for an average of 180 with Action Surge, or 90 without it - that's much more reasonable. A Potion of Speed would boost that to 210 with Action Surge, and 120 without Action Surge. With Polearm Master at level 12, that improves further to 240 and 150 respectively, as you're making an additional Bonus Action attack with quarterstaff. (Edit: I have now included the +2 damage bonus for Dueling fighting style, added the effects of a Potion of Speed, and Polearm Master.)

I think your issue is with CME and in that case, you should just ban the spell. I don't see any min-maxing here. This is just basic optimization using CME.

Without a Vicious Weapon and going with the Shillelagh-build, the Eldritch Knight at level 11 gets (1d12+5+2+2d8)x3+2d6=74.5, doubled with Action Surge. An Eldritch Knight Strength build would give you (2d6+9+2d8)x3+2d6=82, doubled with Action Surge. A Bladesinger at level 11 can upcast CME to level 6 and attack for (1d8+5+4d8)x2+2d6=62 or cast Scorching Ray at 5th level for (2d6+4d8)x6=177. A Warlock with EB can do (1d10+5+3d8)x3=72 every turn.

With your approach, you'd get the extra 2d6 from the Eldritch Knight, dropping him to 67.5 and 75 respectively. The Bladesinger would drop to 55 with his attacks, but the Scorching Ray combo would remain the same. The Warlock does not have any stacking riders, so he'd stay at 72. And given that the only one of the three who can reliably boost their damage via a Vicious Weapon is the Eldritch Knight, all you'd achieve is widening the Martials-Caster-divide because, even though the Bladesinger could also boost his attack damage with a Vicous Weapon, he has other means - like Scorching Ray - to nuke his targets. But if a Fighter can just barely keep up with a Warlock using EB doing the one thing they are good at already at level 11, you have a much bigger balancing problem.

 

[Ancoulainn]

So ive been keeping track of an Eldritch Knight I would play. Something new has been added to the equation however.

Race Human
Origin: Custom or 5.0
Origin Feats. Mark of the Storm, Magic Initiate:druid.

Pick shillelagh, guidance whatever you like (absorb elements?)
Class. Fighter:Eldritch Knight.
Ability scores. : 17 intelligence, 16 dexterity
Weapon Mastery: Prone.
Feats. All boosting Intelligence
4: Warcaster.
6. Potent Dragonmark
8. Fae Touched. Pick hex.

You can swap 6 and 8 around perhaps.

Arcane focus Quaterstaff.

At level 7 you can use true strike. And cast conjure Minor Elementals 1/short rest. And shillelagh is a d10 weapon.

1d10+7+2d8 base damage. True strike another 1d6.

CME+action surge.
1d10+7+2d8+1d6, 1d10+7+2d8, 1d10+7+2d8+1d6, 1d10+7+2d8
You're proficient in con saves and have warcaster. Arcane focus and warcaster you've got hands free casting.

Playable from level one, no screwing around with a bad Valor bard theory craft builds. Switches on early.

At 11 you get 3rd attack, 1d12 damage and CME is 3d8 (nerfed) or 4d8 (pre nerf). True strike 2d6.

Action surge
1d12+7+3d8+2d6 ×2 68 avg
1d12+7×3d8 x4 x4 108 avg

Damage potential average 176. 88 without action surge.

If crafting is allowed get a vicious quarterstaff. Its another 42 damage.

Your also knocking stuff prone. Advantage to hit.

At range probably use a shortbow. CME and true strike apply at range as well.

If you want to use a Shield, you run into an issue though. The Quarterstaff can be used as an Arcane Focus for your Wizard spells. But spells picked up via Magic Initiate aren't added to your spell list, so the Quarterstaff cannot be used as an Arcane Focus to cast Shillelagh. Shillelagh has a verbal, somatic, and material component and the material component is a Mistletoe, not the weapon you are holding. This means that while you are holding your Quarterstaff, you need to touch a Mistletoe or Component Pouch with your other hand which you can't if that hand is holding a Shield. War Caster does not help with this, because War Caster only addresses the somatic component, not the material component. Thus, you either lose the shield for this build or spend your action after casting Shillelagh donning it. The only ways around this is playing Thri-Kreen; playing Druid, who have Shillelagh on their spell list and therefore can use the Quarterstaff as a Druidic Focus in place of the the material component to cast that spell; or playing Ranger with Druidic Warrior since those cantrips count as Ranger spells and you can use a Quarterstaff as a Druidic Focus here as well.

 

[ECMO3]

Since I last posed I have quite a bit of experience playing a similar style build right now. Mine is a multiclass Warlock/Fighter and she dual wields a pact Scimitar and a Shillelagh Club (Shillelagh through POT). She also uses Agonizing Green Flame Blade as her go to instead of Truestrike, getting +6 due to Charisma on both the Main target (currently 2d8+6) and the secondary target (currently 2d8+12) and rerolling 1s on the fire damage. She has a 22 Charisma (got last 2 points from a Tome).

Her feats are:
Flames Of Phelethegos (CH18)
Warcaster (CH19)
Shadow Touched (CH20)
Putrify (S16 to work with Summon Undead)

Here are some random observations from playing through level 16 (10 EK/6 Warlock):

- Shillelagh really eats up bonus actions, and that will be an issue with Tactical Shift and Misty Step available. You want to get in melee and that will require you to use these things, add even more if you have Hex. I find a lot of times I am making an attack with my pact scimitar, then an attack with my Club (non-Shillelagh) and then nick with my scimitar.

- I am not a huge fan of CME. It is a big damage number, but it is also a lost action and requires concentration and is not defensive at all. Even though you can cast it an action surge, at that level I would rather action surge first then use Fear+Eldritch Strike or Hold Person+Eldritc Strike or Tasha's + Eldritch Strike to give enemies disadvantage on the saves against the control. Incapacitating them reduces the load on you as far as being targeted.

- I think you really want Wrathful Smite on this build due to how it plays with Eldritch Strike. You can get it through Shadow Touched. You use it when you can't quite get to someone in melee, so you truestrike a Javelin at them. I like this a lot better than Hex as an off-brand spell on this build.

FWIW here she is:

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