Breath Weapon vs Golem

[cthulhu_duck]

Golems have Immunity to Magic:

Immunity to Magic (Ex)
Golems have immunity to most magical and supernatural effects, except when otherwise noted.
...(http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/golem.htm)

and when my players' characters encountered a clay golem recently, their initial spell volley bounced off - leading to questions like 'what do we know about golems' and given the party composition a few I felt should know that spells tend to bounce off golems. This lead to one clever player using a 'draconic breath' feat/ability his character had - the Clay Golem mention of their Immunity to Magic reads:

Immunity to Magic (Ex)

A clay golem is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance. In addition, certain spells and effects function differently against the creature, as noted below.
...(http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/golem.htm#clayGolem)

...with no mention of a clay golem being immune to breath weapons - so I allowed the attack to do damage. Was this right? I have this niggling feeling that I've missed something.

 

[Pseudonym]

Was this right? I have this niggling feeling that I've missed something.

No, I think you got it right. If the dragon breath was a spell like ability which doesn't allow for resistance, it gets past the golem's immunity; as long as the dragon breath type in question wasn't acid.

Come to think of it, most breath weapons are supernatural rather than spell-like, so it wouldn't apply anyway.

Where is this dragon breath feat found?

 

[Caliban]

No, I think you got it right. If the dragon breath was a spell like ability which doesn't allow for resistance, it gets past the golem's immunity; as long as the dragon breath type in question wasn't acid.

Come to think of it, most breath weapons are supernatural rather than spell-like, so it wouldn't apply anyway.

Where is this dragon breath feat found?

Complete Arcane. And the breath weapon granted by the feat is indeed supernatural.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Spells like Orb of Electricity work as well, of course

-Hyp.

 

[cthulhu_duck]

Thanks for the prompt answers folks!

 

[ken-ichi]

I would have to say that a golem would be immune to a breath weapon attack or other supernatural effect (unless it was a move earth effect, acid damage, etc for a clay golem in which case the special effects for the clay golem take effect.)
The Golem type ability says that they are immune to most magical and supernatural effects.
A dragon's breath is a supernatural effect, so far the golem is immune to it.
When you look at the Clay Golem's Magic Immunity it further defines this ability (by the way all the Golems in the SRD have the exact same terminology):
"A clay golem is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance. In addition, certain spells and effects function differently against the creature, as noted below."
So this defines which spells and spell-like abilities the golem can ignore, only those that allow SR. However the primary golem ability is still in effect because the clay golem's entry does nothing to invalidate the immunity to supernatural effects. As supernatural effects never allow SR, it cannot be lumped together with spells and spell-like abilities because those types of effects vary in SR usage. So the supernatural ability must follow the description in the overall golem entry. As there is no errata on the golem ability it remains valid.

 

[cthulhu_duck]

However the primary golem ability is still in effect because the clay golem's entry does nothing to invalidate the immunity to supernatural effects.

I think that was what was niggling at me ... Hrm...

 

[Mucus von Spidtle]

I think Ken-Ichi puts it very well, but source of the problem is in the wording of the SRD:
most =/ all

If it said "have immunity to ALL...Supernatural effects, except when noted." then the problem would resolve itself...

 

[Caliban]

I think it's been generally agreed that that bit of text was a hold-over from 3.0 that didn't get updated when the Golem magic immunity changed in 3.5.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I think Ken-Ichi puts it very well, but source of the problem is in the wording of the SRD:
most =/ all

If it said "have immunity to ALL...Supernatural effects, except when noted." then the problem would resolve itself...

Actually, whether it says most or all doesn't really matter. If you use the individual golem Magic Immunity descriptions, it's "none" for Su. It's a clear conflict, perhaps a holdover like Caliban mentions. So, does the individual ability description override the entire general description or does it merely define the specifics on spells and spell-like abilities and leaving Su abilities unchanged?