Bronze Weapons

[taliesin15]

A suggestion here, prompted by that cash thread--I recently had a cache of Bronze Age Weapons discovered by the PCs IMC--the party is probably going to sell them, as they are very old, and mostly antique value. However, I have heard from someone in Austin who makes swords for Ren Fairs and such that a bronze weapon has added lethality--something in the bronze poisons the blood. OTOH, they tend to break more easily in combat. I thought I'd raise this since I've seldom heard the topic broached.

 

[Thanee]

Whatever it does, it won't affect them while they are still in combat for sure.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Emirikol]

After studying up on a little metallurgy, you can see that bronze can be alloyed to be nearly as hard as steel.

There's no reason to stick with some earth historical bit saying that bronze is useless, pointless and weak..otherwise all you get out of players is "sigh..it's like finding copper pieces." We houseruled that bronze weapons (except deliberately noted ones) are as hard as the steel used in the game.

jh

 

[Keith Robinson]

There's a whole bunch of stuff about Weapons and Technology in Arms & Armor, including stuff on bronze weapons and armor. Don't know if that is any use to you.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

After studying up on a little metallurgy, you can see that bronze can be alloyed to be nearly as hard as steel.

I can accept that, and also that there might be other excellent reasons for using bronze over steel (availability, expense, etc.) but how does this "hard bronze" stack up to steel in terms of ductility, brittleness, and toughness?

 

[ephemeron]

Perhaps the person you talked to was thinking of arsenic bronze? "Regular" bronze is an alloy of copper and tin, but arsenic can be used instead of tin (and was used first). I don't know what exactly exposure to arsenic bronze would to do a person, but suspect that smiths would be most affected, followed by the wielders of arsenic-bronze weapons, followed by people wounded with such weapons.

My understanding is that iron replaced bronze, in Europe and the Near East at least, more because of the relative scarcity of tin and relative abundance of iron than the properties of the bronze and iron. If anything, it takes less skill and technology to make a decent bronze weapon than a decent iron weapon; bronze is pretty tough on its own and can be worked at lower temperatures, but the Iron Age didn't really happen until people figured out ways to build hotter smelting furnaces and to case-harden iron (that is, convert the outer layers of a piece of iron into steel).

 

[mythusmage]

To follow up on the above, the first culture we know of that used iron for tools and weapons was the Hittite. Their enemies, the Egyptians, Hebrews, Assyrians, and Babylonians stuck with bronze, because it was what they knew, and the trade routes bringing in tin still functioned.

Then Thera blew up. Famine, snow in Mesopotamia, tribal migrations, all that noise. With the supply of tin cut off people needed a substitute, and iron fit the bill. The Assyrians were the first to recover from the calamity, and they proved better at organization and using iron than the Hittites had been.

 

[DanMcS]

Perhaps the person you talked to was thinking of arsenic bronze? "Regular" bronze is an alloy of copper and tin, but arsenic can be used instead of tin (and was used first). I don't know what exactly exposure to arsenic bronze would to do a person, but suspect that smiths would be most affected, followed by the wielders of arsenic-bronze weapons, followed by people wounded with such weapons.

Bronze smiths using arsenic apparently suffered nerve damage in their limbs.

I think arsenic isn't poisonous on contact, you have to get it into your body somehow, so wielding such a weapon wouldn't be dangerous. And if you get stabbed with one, probably your least concern is what the weapon was made out of

 

[taliesin15]

fascinating replies, especially the stuff on arsenic bronze and after, thanks!

I'm wondering if anyone's done something like have an old cache of bronze weapons discovered, to be sold as antiques?

 

[sjmiller]

A quick check of the US Department of Health and Human Service's Agency for Toxic Substances & Disease Registry gives us this little blurb about the health effects of arsenic:

How can arsenic affect my health?

Breathing high levels of inorganic arsenic can give you a sore throat or irritated lungs.

Ingesting very high levels of arsenic can result in death. Exposure to lower levels can cause nausea and vomiting, decreased production of red and white blood cells, abnormal heart rhythm, damage to blood vessels, and a sensation of "pins and needles" in hands and feet.

Ingesting or breathing low levels of inorganic arsenic for a long time can cause a darkening of the skin and the appearance of small "corns" or "warts" on the palms, soles, and torso.

Skin contact with inorganic arsenic may cause redness and swelling.

Organic arsenic compounds are less toxic than inorganic arsenic compounds. Exposure to high levels of some organic arsenic compounds may cause similar effects as inorganic arsenic.

A little more research shows that the chance of a person who is attacked with an "arsenic bronze" weapon dying from arsenic found in the bronze is statistically unlikely. Now, dying from blood loss or septicemia is a very distinct possibility. I think your friend is a tad misinformed. That's okay, there's a lot of misinformation out there about ancient weapons.