BrOSR

[Mannahnin]

It also corresponded with the planned release of the 1E Battlesystem boxed set IIRC. At the time, I think Ral Partha was the licensed producer and could have actually supported the release making both companies money, but the decision to bring it in-house was utterly flawed and reminiscent of the previous dice production scheme the Blumes had cooked up. It also apparently created tension with Ral Partha.

Either way, the boxed set was apparently very expensive and the largest boxed set that TSR released up until that point. It portended the latter production cost being higher than retail price much less wholesale that ultimately doomed the company in the 90s.

The Battlesystem boxed set was expensive? That's interesting. I have the 1E set, and it's definitely less fancy than many of the big boxed sets they released during the Williams regime. It does have a glossy full color booklet with photos of miniatures, as I recall, and HUNDREDS of cardboard chits to use in place of miniatures. And I think it came with two metal miniatures to use as generals.

 

[PHATsakk43]

The Battlesystem boxed set was expensive? That's interesting. I have the 1E set, and it's definitely less fancy than many of the big boxed sets they released during the Williams regime. It does have a glossy full color booklet with photos of miniatures, as I recall, and HUNDREDS of cardboard chits to use in place of miniatures. And I think it came with two metal miniatures to use as generals.

I’ve got two of them actually.

Apparently it was more expensive than they were selling it at and it didn’t move well.

I’m trying to remember which podcast was discussing it. Maybe Ben Riggs as he has all this financial stuff from TSR, but that doesn’t feel right to me.

Neither box I have has the metal minis, which are apparently hard to find now.

I think a lot of this stuff was never actually shipped and ended up getting dumped on the market in the 2000s. I know when WotC took over in the late 1990s they found an entire warehouse of new 1E stuff and other TSR games like cases of Buck Rodger’s games that had either never shipped or had been returned.

I can remember seeing adds for the DSG & WSG in the early 90s in Wargames West’s flyers selling those for $3.99. Another example is that Unearthed Arcana was still in print into the early 1990s even though it wasn’t available.

 

[TiQuinn]

I think a lot of this stuff was never actually shipped and ended up getting dumped on the market in the 2000s. I know when WotC took over in the late 1990s they found an entire warehouse of new 1E stuff and other TSR games like cases of Buck Rodger’s games that had either never shipped or had been returned.

In all my life, I never saw a single person say they were running TSR Buck Rogers games. I know Gygax got a lot of crap for some of his stunts, and rightfully so, but Williams had some major WTF moments too, and that was one.

 

[Alzrius]

In all my life, I never saw a single person say they were running TSR Buck Rogers games. I know Gygax got a lot of crap for some of his stunts, and rightfully so, but Williams had some major WTF moments too, and that was one.

Actually, that was two, since Williams had TSR release two separate Buck Rogers RPGs.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I think a lot of this stuff was never actually shipped and ended up getting dumped on the market in the 2000s. I know when WotC took over in the late 1990s they found an entire warehouse of new 1E stuff and other TSR games like cases of Buck Rodger’s games that had either never shipped or had been returned.

TSR tried exploiting the contract with Random House and it totally backfired on them, which had to be predictable by those in charge. The TL;DR very high level version:

TSR: Hey, Random House, here's $1,000,000 worth of product we're shipping to you, thanks for the check. (knowing it would never sell, and using the money to fund future work and pay salary)
Random House: Hey TSR, only $100,000 of that stuff sold, we're shipping the rest back, give us $900,000 back (which of course they didn't have, so they went right back to step 1).

In all my life, I never saw a single person say they were running TSR Buck Rogers games. I know Gygax got a lot of crap for some of his stunts, and rightfully so, but Williams had some major WTF moments too, and that was one.

As a business management major myself, the TSR example (both Gygax era and Williams era) should be a mandatory course on how not to run a business.

 

[Mannahnin]

As a business management major myself, the TSR example (both Gygax era and Williams era) should be a mandatory course on how not to run a business.

While there are definitely major blunders, some aspects could also be positive. The Dragonlance books, much though I may decry the quality of the original trilogy, were a major success, and paved the way for Williams-era TSR pivoting to fiction and becoming the leading fantasy publisher in the US (as I recall). This was a rare example of TSR branching out successfully from their core product into one which synergized incredibly well with it.

 

[Cordwainer Fish]

In all my life, I never saw a single person say they were running TSR Buck Rogers games. I know Gygax got a lot of crap for some of his stunts, and rightfully so, but Williams had some major WTF moments too, and that was one.

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if that got her on the cover of Forbes. It's not every day you get the opportunity to redirect your company's funds directly into your own pocket and have it be perfectly legal.

 

[PHATsakk43]

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if that got her on the cover of Forbes. It's not every day you get the opportunity to redirect your company's funds directly into your own pocket and have it be perfectly legal.

There was a recent episode of Reading D&D Aloud where Ben Riggs gets into this with a guest and it’s actually rather apologetic towards Williams and it shouldn’t really be considered that outrageous of an idea. I think it was Zeb Cook who he was talking with it.

 

[TiQuinn]

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if that got her on the cover of Forbes. It's not every day you get the opportunity to redirect your company's funds directly into your own pocket and have it be perfectly legal.

I want to like this post so much but I hate all that you said at the same time that I’m nodding in agreement. Sucks.

 

[Sacrosanct]

While there are definitely major blunders, some aspects could also be positive. The Dragonlance books, much though I may decry the quality of the original trilogy, were a major success, and paved the way for Williams-era TSR pivoting to fiction and becoming the leading fantasy publisher in the US (as I recall). This was a rare example of TSR branching out successfully from their core product into one which synergized incredibly well with it.

The books were an accident. The success didn't start with Dragonlance, it actually started with the Endless Quest Books. Rose Estes pitched the idea, management was against it, and finally told her, "Fine, if you want, but do it on your own time." So she did.

They were a huge success. Then management decided to go all in with novels, but screwed up again by not compensating the talent and letting them walk (Weiss and Hickman) or putting unrealistic demands on them (Bob Salvatore) or way over-producing what the market wanted.

Basically, the success was because of right place and right time and in spite of themselves, and all the bad things were because of decisions by management. So no, I don't consider that a positive of management. You don't get credit for the success of something you initially tried to stop in the first place, then screwed the talent that got you there in spite of yourselves.