Bubble-boy: Line of Effect issues.

Swami · Feb 7, 2003

Ok, here I am confused, if all you need is LOE space, and since HP has no physical manifestation listed(therefore I assume none is required,) wouldn't having a gap a micron wide be enough for casting the spell?

Hypersmurf · Feb 7, 2003

Wouldn't having a gap a micron wide be enough for casting the spell?

No.

The area of the gap has to be a square foot.

As far as targetting people hiding in phone booths, that's what the Shout spell is for... 15d6-no-save to those windows should give you a clear line of effect for a Hold Person...

-Hyp.

Arravis · Feb 7, 2003

I'm a bit confused by this mess... does a Wall of Force protect someone on the other side of it from LoS spells, such as Hold Person, Feeblemind, etc?

Hypersmurf · Feb 7, 2003

It protects someone from any spell that requires Line of Effect, except Gaze Attacks like Eyebite.

Targetted spells - like Feeblemind and Hold Person - require a Line of Effect from the caster to the target.

Ergo, Wall of Force, protects someone from Feeblemind.

It's not a mess - it's very clear.

-Hyp.

smetzger · Feb 7, 2003

Arravis said:
I'm a bit confused by this mess... does a Wall of Force protect someone on the other side of it from LoS spells, such as Hold Person, Feeblemind, etc?

Yes it does.

coyote6 · Feb 7, 2003

FWIW, I agree with Hypersmurf, Piratecat, et al. It seems pretty clear to me; I recall thinking, "ooh, no casting through windows" when I first read the rule.

Having played a few rounds of "Enemy mage behind armored glass zaps the PCs" in Shadowrun, I'm fine with D&D's rule. Though as the SR example indicates, house ruling the opposite isn't an unplayable option. It can be exploited fairly easily, though (e.g., have a spellcaster hide behind a one-way mirror and cast away -- the PCs will probably spend several rounds looking for invisible foes; and the wall of force combinations are obvious).

I wonder if Cook's Arcana Unearthed will have different rules...

Hypersmurf said:
Ergo, Wall of Force [...]
It's not a mess - it's very clear.

Pun intended or not?

Hypersmurf · Feb 7, 2003

Pun intended or not?

Entirely accidental, I fear.

-Hyp.

Piratecat · Feb 8, 2003

Okay, enough back-and-forth bickering. It's not that important an issue.

Ratama said:
I'm not sure why you would intentionally misinterpret the rules in such a broken fashion (Resilient Shere, in particular, becomes an incredibly broken spell with your houserule).

Err... it's not a house rule. As people have already explained, the rules are exquisitely clear on this issue. You simply can't cast spells from behind a closed window. In this case, the precedent is unambiguous and easy to understand; except for gaze spells, there is effectively no difference between a see-through window, a see-through wall, and a solid wall.

And just so we're clear, I playtested the 3e rules starting a year and a half before they came out. I run a high level campaign and play in both a low-level and a mid-level game; between these and RPGA judging, I'd estimate I've played in well over 200 3e games. And in none of these - not one - did it "break" the game. It seems to be a good rule, and it works well. Doing it your way is fine - but it's a house rule.

Incidentally, if someone was hiding in a phone booth - assuming such things existed in my game - I imagine someone would use a lightning bolt to shatter the glass before following it up with a hold person.

Ratama, I know you're new here, but you might want to lead off with a little less insulting manner - even when you totally think people are wrong. I think it made a bad impression on folks, which twisted the course of this thread. In any event, welcome.

Hypersmurf · Feb 8, 2003

Ratama, I know you're new here, but you might want to lead off with a little less insulting manner - even when you totally think people are wrong.

I was wondering why he bothered asking question 3 if he was going to get so short with people who disagreed with him...

-Hyp.