Buffs and possession

[Brista]

I'm thinking about the Magic Jar spell

When you cast a spell on "you" who exactly is "you" once your mind is in someone else's body while your body is inert

If I buff myself up with all the power-ups then start jumping into creatures minds does each one become a killing machine?

On the other hand if I turn Invisible can I slaughter everything in the dungeon without breaking the Invisibility (dispelled when "you" attack)

What happens if I possess the party fighter, cast permanent protection from arrows then jump out again? Protection from arrows is supposed to be a "yourself only" application. Is this a way round this?

Does it depend on the spell? It kinda seems reasonable that Mind Blank would stay with you but that Bull's Strength would not

Now please don't focus an answer on game balance and/or your house rules. I know this is pure munchkinland. I want to start with the official version before working out how best we should ref this

 

[LazarusLong42]

I don't think there *are* official rules. However, without delving into house rules...

I'd rule that if it affects the body, it stays with your body; if it affects the mind/soul, it moves with you. So, Bull's Strength, Invisibility, etc. would stay behind, affecting your inert body; Fox's Cunning, Mind Blank, etc. would stay with your mind/soul jumping from creature to creature.

I would likely also rule that Personal-range spells can only be cast while the mind and body are together.

My 2 cp.

 

[AuraSeer]

The only official ruling I know of is for spells of range Personal. The FAQ says: "A personal range spell goes where you go." So if you cast iron body and then magic jar into your fighter lackey, the fighter's body becomes iron while you're possessing it.

I'd say that mind-affecting magic (like compulsions) would follow the mind. Other than that, it seems like buffs should stick with the body.

On the other hand if I turn Invisible can I slaughter everything in the dungeon without breaking the Invisibility (dispelled when "you" attack)

No. In this case, "you" means the subject of the effect. If you rule that invisibility follows the soul, then it's ended when that soul attacks, regardless of what body it uses to do so. (Personally though, I'd say invisibility sticks with the body, so the question would be moot.)

 

[Murrdox]

That's a very odd question.

The only CLEAR answer is that any enhancement spells would go with the MIND if they affected your INT, WIS or CHA, and they would go with the BODY if they affected the STR, DEX, or CON. This only makes sense because when you Magic Jar, you are taking on the physical attributes of the creature you are possessing, but not the mental ones.

For example, if the target of the Magic Jar spell was under the effects of a Quest spell, when you took possession of the target, you would not suddenly have a Quest. While in that body, if you then cast Bull's Strength and Fox's Cunning (assuming you had the means to cast both of them) If you then jumped into ANOTHER body, the Fox's Cunning would follow you, but the Bull's Strength would not.

Certain other spells like Quest are pretty clear, it seems to me... just like these enhancement spells... but there are probably quite a bit of grey areas. I would say definitely that any physical protection spells (blur, protection from elements, mage armor) would stay on whatever body cast them. Any MENTAL spells would stay with you as you moved from body to body.

 

[Brista]

I don't think it's an odd question

Let me explain, I don't want to abuse the rules utterly but I do want to get the best out of my characters

Now suppose I, as the party's wizard get buffed up with Bull's Strength, Delay Poison, Spell Immunity - Dispel Magic, Death Ward etc etc.

I then cast Magic Jar. Better still an Enlarged one. The party then walk slowly around the dungeon carrying my body while I jump into the monsters before we get into encounter range. A group of say 6 Ogres are toast, zero challenge and I could use a survivor to kick off on the next room. The spell lasts a very long time

OK, well that's pretty over the top just from a balance of play perspective. It does seem to be permitted by the rules but I wouldn't want to play a fighter where all I do is hang back and let the wizard kill everything

A more reasonable use might be to cast it when you know there is a tough fight up ahead. If you can predict the end of scenario big fight, which is a mainstay of most scenarios, and which you often can predict Magic Jar, even unbuffed allows you to devastate your opponent

For example, at the end of the Dungeon is an entirely predictable fortified position guarded by two fighters, a cleric, a wizard and a rogue. Do you not see that magic jar, especially paired with Spell Immunity - Dispel Magic would allow the party to defeat an encounter at minimal risk? Even an overwhelming one?

Lastly there is the issue of long term buffs. Possessing the other party members and giving each one Permanent Darkvision, Protection from Arrows and See Invisibility? Not to mention other, researchable permanency applications

The psionic version Incarnate is less restricted and not easily dispelled. Possessing the party monk and incarnating psionic buffs would create an unbelievably high-powered character

As a player I am interested in what other people see as acceptable boundaries for what look like campaign-breaking power-ups

As a GM I am interested firstly to know if this is covered by something in the books I may have missed and secondly to know if anyone has had this come up and how they have dealt with it

Lastly is there any list anywhere that defines the rather vague "you can research other spells to see if they work with Permanency" in the spell description?