Build Options

[FadedC]

Why would a 3E character have no access to Feats?

The point is that 4E characters have access to feats too, we just don't know what they are. Right now the only comparison we can make is the base rogue class from 4e to the base rogue class from 3e. And the 4e one gives far more options at lvl 1.

 

[Ulthwithian]

It's stated in the 4E info here that the Warlord is Int-based. It would seem that the Leaders in general will get 'leading' builds vs. 'retiring' builds.

Paladin is the really tricky one.

 

[Mistwell]

I don't know... it seems pretty restrictive to me.

Here's the only 2 types of Rogues you can play... ever

Whatever happened to the charisma rogue? the thinking rogue? or any of the other conceps there are for a character?

Nope, Str, or Dex, the end, sorry

This is what WOTC said in the Sneak Attack article on rogues:

You’re going to see something called “builds” in the information that follows. Builds present themes that you can use to guide you as you select powers and other abilities. You can follow the advice of a build, or you can ignore it. It’s not a constraint, but instead provides information to help you make informed choices as you create your character. Using a class build isn’t required; builds exist to help guide your decisions through the process of character creation and each time you level up.

And yet, despite them calling the issue out up front, you're assuming it's a constraint and required.

 

[Imp]

But many of the powers are expressly tied into the builds: you get more benefits from these powers if you've taken one of the two rogue talents, which mirror the builds. It's much more of a constraint suggestion than the sample builds you'd see at the end of character class entries in 3e books.

Speculation: the builds probably feed right into paragon paths – brawny rogue -> assassin, say. The hope is that you can easily switch from one build to a differently focused path, at least, that would be my hope. But I could see being annoyed by some options being presented as paragon paths that don't make sense to keep from heroic-tier characters.

 

[The Little Raven]

And yet, despite them calling the issue out up front, you're assuming it's a constraint and required.

You expect way too much of people, if you expect them to fully read something AND apply context to it.

 

[Betote]

Without any access to feats or multiclassing, how many types of rogues could you play in 3e at lvl 1?

Let's see...

Charming rogue
Focus on Charisma and social skills.

Backstabber
Tumble and Bluff (for feinting).

Dungeoneer
Disable device, Search, Use magic device. Int and Dex as main abilities.

Scout
Spot, Move Silently, Hide, ranged weapons.

Athlete
Balance, Climb, Jump.

Know-it-all
Focus on Knowledge skills, probably with Well-Read feat if it's available.

God I'm going to miss 3.X's skill system...

 

[FadedC]

Let's see...

Charming rogue
Focus on Charisma and social skills.

Backstabber
Tumble and Bluff (for feinting).

Dungeoneer
Disable device, Search, Use magic device. Int and Dex as main abilities.

Scout
Spot, Move Silently, Hide, ranged weapons.

Athlete
Balance, Climb, Jump.

Know-it-all
Focus on Knowledge skills, probably with Well-Read feat if it's available.

God I'm going to miss 3.X's skill system...

Yeah you can pretty much do all of that in 4e too by choosing where to put your stat and skill points (maybe not the know it all, but you can't do that without feats in 3e either). So your example pretty much proves my point.....in 3e the basic rogue could only be customized by where you put your skill points. In 4e you still have skill selection, but there are far more options beyond that.

 

[Ulthwithian]

I personally believe that people's oppositions to the 'builds' presented in the article are mainly based on what we see. While I personally believe that there will be enough 'customization' to make the 'builds' just what WotC claims that they are, I also feel that there is sufficient evidence for those who do not believe the above to be justifiably nervous.