D&D 5E Build/Stats to Sauron in DND 5e

[Ragnaros.]

There is a difference between "he IS a 5th level wizard" and "the only powers that reasonably match D&D spells that we see explicitly in the text are those of a 5th level wizard."

Eliding from the latter to the former does not impress or persuade me.

But Gandalf used some powers that are beyond a Level 5 Mage:

- The power word Stun against Wormtongue + control weather:

"He raised his staff. There was a roll of thunder. The sunlight was blotted out from the eastern windows; the whole hall became suddenly dark as night. The fire faded to sullen embers. Only Gandalf could be seen, standing white and tall before the blackened hearth. In the gloom they heard the hiss of Wormtongue’s voice: ‘Did I not advise you, lord, to forbid his staff ? That fool, Hama, has betrayed us!' There was a flash as if lightning had cloven the roof. Then all was silent. Wormtongue sprawled on his face."

- The Aura of Terror he used against the thousands of Uruks in the Battle of Helm's Deep:

"The White Rider was upon them, and the terror of his coming filled the enemy with madness. The wild men fell on their faces before him. The Orcs reeled and screamed and cast aside both sword and spear. Like a black smoke driven by a mounting wind they fled. Wailing they passed under the waiting shadow of the trees; and from that shadow none ever came again.

- Sunburst against the Nazgul:

'Gandalf!' he cried. 'Gandalf! He always turns up when things are darkest. Go on! Go on, White Rider! Gandalf, Gandalf!' he shouted wildly, like an onlooker at a great race urging on a runner who is far beyond encouragement. But now the dark swooping shadows were aware of the newcomer. One wheeled towards him; but it seemed to Pippin that he raised his hand, and from it a shaft of white light stabbed upwards. The Nazgûl gave a long wailing cry and swerved away; and with that the four others wavered, and then rising in swift spirals they passed away eastward vanishing into the lowering cloud above; and
down on the Pelennor it seemed for a while less dark."

- The Greater Bless or Greater Dispel Fear/Evil he gave (in bulk) to dozens or hundreds of people in Minas Tirith, wherever he went, to raise morale and courage:

"So it was that Gandalf took command of the last defense of the City of Gondor. Whenever he came men's hearts would lift again, and the winged shadows pass from memory. Tirelessly he strode from Citadel to Gate, from north to south about the wall;

 

[nevin]

I don't know if you've already created a topic or discussed it, but I would like to know if it's possible to build (class, level) or put stats (divine rank, strength, dexterity, wisdom, etc) for Sauron from LOTR.

Sauron proved to be pluripotent. He used some powerful spells/powers (mostly) without the Ring:

Spoiler: Sauron's Powers/Spell List

Sauron's Powers/Spell List"]Wish? Volcano Control - Orodruin: 9th level spell?




Shapechange: 9th level spell







Dominate Monster - Orcs, Trolls, Nazgûl, Wargs - 9th level spell



Earthquake: 8th level spell





Control Weather - 8th level spell



Demiplane? - 8th level spell


Antimagic field - Sammath Naur and Temple of Morgoth - 8th level spell





Sympathy? - the attraction of Gollum and all evils to Mordor - 8th level spell



Feeblemind? Power Word: Stun? - 8th level spell

Demi god. All stats 22, 20th level necromancer, lich. Soul stored in artifact ring that cannot be destroyed anywhere but place it was made, all other rings allow sauron to subtly affect Thier emotions and in the case of weaker minds eventually completely control them and turn them into shadow creatures.

 

[nevin]

But Gandalf used some powers that are beyond a Level 5 Mage:

- The power word Stun against Wormtongue + control weather:



- The Aura of Terror he used against the thousands of Uruks in the Battle of Helm's Deep:



- Sunburst against the Nazgul:



- The Greater Bless or Greater Dispel Fear/Evil he gave (in bulk) to dozens or hundreds of people in Minas Tirith, wherever he went, to raise morale and courage:

Gandalf was a celestial and could call on the powers of heaven. The rules were very strict, he could only use his full power against other beings like himself or creatures like the wringraiths that had been corrupted against the plan for creation.

 

[Ragnaros.]

Demi god. All stats 22, 20th level necromancer, lich. Soul stored in artifact ring that cannot be destroyed anywhere but place it was made, all other rings allow sauron to subtly affect Thier emotions and in the case of weaker minds eventually completely control them and turn them into shadow creatures.

But can a Lich, Necromancer have these spells used by Sauron?

• Control Volcano;
• Shapechange;
• Control weather;
• Earthquakes;
• Lightning Storm
• Dominate Monsters;
• Telepathy;
• Antimagic field;
• He Self Resurrect twice (Clone?, True resurrection?)

As a Necromancer, I remember him creating the Nazgûl, Barrow Wight, controlling ghosts, wraiths, etc. He used a great disease (the great plague) in the third age.

For a Lich, he created the One Ring that functions as a Phylactery plus a mind control tool.

Question: what is the spell to permanently curse an Item when touching it? Sauron touched the 9 rings of men and the 7 rings of dwarves and these were cursed.

What spell did Sauron use when using a wraith that took on the appearance of Gorlim's wife in the Silmarillion? It’s a Illusion spell, maybe Major Image?

 

[nevin]

Sauron is a demigod infused with power by Morgoth. Anything beyond mortal magic comes from that. He had to become a lich because otherwise he would have resurrected in the undying lands and then most likely imprisoned with morgoth

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

Sauron is a Maiar, and one of the greatest, not a "human"...
is on another power scale..

BHH

So are balrogs, yet a few haven been defeated by elves in single combat. Even Gothmog (sp), who was similar in stature and power to Sauron, fell in single combat to an elf.

It is hard to do a direct comparison between LOTR and D&D

 

[Ragnaros.]

So are balrogs, yet a few haven been defeated by elves in single combat. Even Gothmog (sp), who was similar in stature and power to Sauron, fell in single combat to an elf.

It is hard to do a direct comparison between LOTR and D&D

But the Balrogs killed in the siege of Gondolin weren't the same Balrogs that are mentioned in The Lord of the Rings.

The Balrogs slain by the elves were weaker and more numerous than came afterward: Balrogs.

The early conception of the Balrogs makes them less terrible, and certainly more destructible, than they afterwards became: they (*In a very late note written on one of the texts that constitute chapter 16 of The
Silmarillion ('Of Maeglin') my father was thinking of making the 'three lords of his household' whom Turgon appointed to ride with Aredhel from Gondolin (p. 131)
Glorfindel, Ecthelion, and Egalmoth

As the legendarium became more formidable and internally consistent, and the Balrogs more terrible, this number was much reduced. In the end Tolkien stated that there were probably "at most" seven Balrogs:

"In the margin my father wrote: 'There should not be supposed more than say 3 or at most 7 ever existed.'
—Morgoth's Ring, Section 2 (AAm*): note

About Sauron and other Maiar. He was more powerful than Gandalf and Saruman:

Sauron represents as near an approach to the wholly evil will as is possible. He had gone the way of all tyrants: beginning well, at least on the level that while desiring to order all things according to his own wisdom he still at first considered the (economic) well-being of other inhabitants of the Earth. But he went further than human tyrants in pride and the lust for domination, being in origin an immortal (angelic) spirit.*
* Of the same kind as Gandalf and Saruman, but of a
far higher order

And more powerful than the Balrogs:

Yes: both outside Arda and in it, before the fall of Utumno. Melkor had corrupted many spirits - some great, as Sauron, or less so, as Balrogs

 

[Omand]

Sauron is a demigod infused with power by Morgoth. Anything beyond mortal magic comes from that. He had to become a lich because otherwise he would have resurrected in the undying lands and then most likely imprisoned with morgoth

Demigod is perhaps one way of looking at Sauron's power level, but if you look at LotR as a whole he is a fallen angel.

He is not a Lich, ever. Again, at least in the LotR legendarium. In D&D terms you might consider that one way of approximating some of his character, but the One Ring is much more complex than a simple repository for Sauron's soul (and a discussion on the status of his soul would fill pages and pages). Sauron is far beyond any Lich as written up in D&D.

Saying Sauron died and resurrected twice is also far too simplistic a take on this.

He was disembodied and de-powered twice, but did not die. As a fallen angel he is a spiritual being, not an incarnate. He can lose the form he is in but was never in danger of being forced back to Valinor because his spirit was not willing.

And Necromancer is a title for him, not a class in the LotR legendarium. It was an alias when "the good" did not know who they were facing.

You cannot map most of Sauron's powers to existing spells in D&D. As @Uni-the-Unicorn! has pointed out, direct comparisons between the two systems are not really possible.

If you want to stat Sauron up, use the base you have started with, but understand that you will have to do a lot of custom design work (most of your spells asked about in Post #24 at the scale Sauron works with, for example).

Cheers

 

[Omand]

But the Balrogs killed in the siege of Gondolin weren't the same Balrogs that are mentioned in The Lord of the Rings.

The Balrogs slain by the elves were weaker and more numerous than came afterward: Balrogs.



About Sauron and other Maiar. He was more powerful than Gandalf and Saruman:

And more powerful than the Balrogs:

Oh, and it seems that you actually agree with most of us who are saying that Sauron cannot be directly ported over to D&D, since you are quoting from scholarship on Saruon's place in the Tolkien legendarium (History of Middle Earth, et. al).

If so, why the continued attempt to place a square peg in a round hole by making everything fit D&D?

In D&D Sauron is mostly DM fiat and best used behind the scenes and as something the PCs will never ever face because except for the one McGuffin (the One Ring), he cannot ever be defeated in any final sense.

Cheers

 

[Ragnaros.]

Oh, and it seems that you actually agree with most of us who are saying that Sauron cannot be directly ported over to D&D, since you are quoting from scholarship on Saruon's place in the Tolkien legendarium (History of Middle Earth, et. al).

If so, why the continued attempt to place a square peg in a round hole by making everything fit D&D?

In D&D Sauron is mostly DM fiat and best used behind the scenes and as something the PCs will never ever face because except for the one McGuffin (the One Ring), he cannot ever be defeated in any final sense.

Cheers

It was just curiosity after seeing how Amazon bucthered the Rings of Power Series.

I remembered the character and wanted to do a Build, adapting it to DND. But apparently, it won't work. I thought some suggestions could fix the initial stats more. But I'm seeing that He's just a NPC.