Building Archers (my players stay out)

[Drawmack]

I am building 6 goblin archers. To make my job, as DM, a bit easier I want to make the carbon coppies of one another. I am looking at making them 4th level.

Here is the scenario they will be used in.
There are three other people besides the goblins. Drow Ranger6, Human Monk 6, Half-Elf Wizard 6. The first two are on the ground fighting with the ranger and the monk hand to hand. The wizard is up on a roof, we play in freeport, taking on the NPC (played by a guest player) wizard. Mean while the Druid, Investigator and Rogue are left to take care of the goblins who are in the buildings surrounding the battle field peppering the PCs with arrows.

I want the goblins of lower levels because I want them to be numerous without overpowering the party.

Here are the rules problems I am having.
There is not an archer class so I have to build it out of the feats that are available. Here is what I'm thinking and I'd like to get everyone's opinions.

The goblin get's the following stats Str 8, Dex 13, Con 11, Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 8 which means that they are going to be pretty crappy in hand to hand combat. I want them to be somewhat of a challenge for the party though. So here is what I have come up with.

Option 1)
If I make them fighters then by fourth level they get 4 feats. This means that I can give them improved initiative and still have three feats left for archery skills. I am thinking Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot and Precise Shot.

This will give them two shots/round at +3/+3 no negative four penalty for shooting into melee or a single shot at +5 into melee. I am going to give the goblins a strength of 10 so that they don't suffer -1 in melee when the rogue or the investigator finds them. I think this will simulate the hail of arrows very well with there being 12 arrows flying into the battle every round. Far shot is because the area they are fighting in is 80' across which means that they can use it.

Option 2)
I could make them rge1/ftr3. I give up two feets to do this but I gain +2 on reflex saves and sneak attack with the arrows pretty much anytime a PC is within 30' and doesn't know it. I would have to give up far shot as the feet as the others are pretty necessary to the concept of the hail of arrows. It would also drop the BaB from +3/+3 or +5 to +4. I could compensate this with a single stat point though which I would probably do. So that remains unaffected. I can then compesate the loss of the other feet with STR 10 which makes them a bit mor formidable in hand to hand.

What I have is two flavors of archer that are at almost the same exact power level but different flavor.

Here are the stats in a comparison chart:

             ftr            ftr/rge
BaB:         +2/+2 or +4    +3
Dmg:         1d6 melee -1   1d6 (SA 1d6) melee +0
Ref:         +0             +3
Fort:        +4             +3
Range:       90ft.          60ft.

Quick Tactical Recap:
Hiding in buildings using shutters for cover. Shooting into a courtyard that is 80' across. Half the goblins on either side of the courtyard. Firing into combat. Will be attacked by a rogue or an investigator (rogue with limited spells but no SA) or possibly have the druid mess with the building.

Which do you like better for this scenario and why?

Edit: Fixed rules problem.

 

[Baron Von StarBlade]

Actually isn't there an Archer Prestige class in Sovreign Stone? Anyways I'd most likely go with the Fighter 4 definitely more worth while. Just make sure they are all spread out so thhe Wizard has to expend multiple whammy spells.

Anyways you are forgetting about the 2 feats you get at 1st and 3rd level and the 1 stat increase for 4th level. Therefore you can also get Weapon Focus: Bow and Weapon Spec: Bow, dump the Extra stat point into Dex and you'll have the something like this:

Within 30 ft.
+6/+6 @1D6+3

Weapon Spec is a little better than 1D6 Sneak attack, since it works no matter what.

 

[LGodamus]

dont forget if you leave their str at 8 ..the damage penalty still applies to ranged attacks too.

 

[drdevoid]

I recently played a much higher level archer and can say from experience ranged sneak attack is iffy, but weapon specialization is forever.

Ftr 4
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Weapon Focus
Weapon Specialization

I would only swap out precise shot for rapid shot if you are going to have potions of cat's grace or masterwork shortbows handy.

If you are interested in a third party feat (and again are willing to use cat's grace), memento-mori.com has sniper (prqs: Point Blank, Far Shot, Precise Shot) adds dexterity to damage when the shot is from a standstill. Here's that link

-Joe Sullivan
"The Colonic Fighter"

 

[Stormprince]

Yep, we have an Archer BASE class in Sovereign Stone.

Fourth Level Archer Class would have the following:

BAB: +3
Fort: +1
Ref: +1
Will: +4
* Primary Weapon (Choose a missile weapon as "primary" weapon of choice: heavy crossbow, light crossbow, longbow, shortbow) +3 competence bonus to attack
* Point Blank Shot (Bonus feat)
* Extra shot (can make 1 additional attack equal to his base attack bonus and all applicable modifiers... stacks with Rapid Shot feat).
* Pinpoint Accuracy (Bonus Feat from SovStone Campaign Sourcebook). Full-round action doing nothing but aiming at target, archer gains a +2 circumstance bonus to his attack against that target. (Aimming can last up to 3 rounds, for a maximum +6 attack on the fourth round). Takes a full action to fire, and he cannot be in an area threatened by an enemy.

Hope that helps!

- Christopher

 

[Baron Von StarBlade]

dont forget if you leave their str at 8 ..the damage penalty still applies to ranged attacks too.

That is only true for thrown weapons.

 

[Rune]

That is only true for thrown weapons.

You sure? I seem to recall that you count a strength penalty on bows, but only count a bonus if you have a mighty composite bow.

Anyway, remember that those stats (Str 8, Dex 13, Con 11, Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 8) are for the average goblin. If these guys are elites, you might consider giving them the standard array of 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, and 8 (25 points), modified by the same amount that the average numbers are.

I recommend a fighter 4 with Str11 (13-2), Dex 17 (15+2), Con 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 6 (8-2).

 

[Malhavoc]

Why don't you give each of them a ring of jumping? The Rogue finally dashing up 3 flights of stairs to see the guy fireing out with window. Turning around, he see's the rogue then leaps out the window to the next building from where he continues fireing. Then, after you've hurt them abit, you just have them leap away from building to building.

 

[Wicht]

goblin archer Rog3/Ftr1: CR 4; HD 3d6+1d10 (hp 17); Init +5; AC 16 (+1 size, +2 Dex, +3 studded leather); Attk +7 ranged (1d8+poison Masterwork Light Crossbow); SA Sneak attack (+2d6), poison (Giant Wasp Poison); SQ Darkvision; SV Fort +3, Ref +5, Will +1; Str 8, Dex 14, Con 11, Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 8.
Skills and Feats: Hide +8, Listen +6, Move Silently +8, Spot +6, Climb +5, Bluff +4, Escape Artist +8, Craft (poison) +7; Improved Initiative, Weapon Focus (crossbow), Point blank shot.

Within 30' these guys will have +8 to hit with their crossbows and will do a potential 1d8+2d6 points of damage. Give each one about 3 or 4 doses of the wasp poison on 4 readied bolts and they will be quite deadly.

 

[MavrickWeirdo]

L4 goblin fighters get 5 feats.

all classes get feats at 1st and 3rd level

fighters get bonuses on 1st, 2nd, and 4th level

at 4th level they get +1 to an ability score (Dex would be nice)

I prefer the fighter