D&D General Building better Guardinals

Mind of tempest

(he/him)advocate for 5e psionics
I have decided that I can do the outer planes better than wotc or tsr as they seem to suck at heavens and the celestial that live in them for whatever reason.

first I am moving the guardinals to the chaotic good slot left open from when the eladrin stopped being angle elves and just became high elf mark 2
I am doing this for several reasons
a) what part of neutral good means giant animal people that seems random if it is to tie into druids always being some type of neutral then it is dumb as druids were classically true neutral and making the outlands the home of nature seems more sane than its other options.
b) what is people's obsession with making elf-like things it seems random
c) chaotic good should not have a monarch as its exemplar that seems wrong but putting the court of stars in the fae wild as the good court for options
d) this is the important one Given the base structure of the original guardinals is an adventuring party it seems logical that the plane which is more or less a mix of endless personal journeys and idealized small civilization would host the celestial adventuring party.

The problem with the original six is:
a) they do not look adequately celestial they just look like any anthro race which is an aesthetic problem which I can’t solve directly but they should look far less mundane than other ones and ideally look heroic but beyond mortal with bodies that look to be made of polished stone or metal
b) too much skill overlap in several of them
c) poor progression as they feel too small variety I am going for more types but also more progression within each type
c)boring animal choice, sure some I agree with or at least think the safe options work for a reason but most are just fairly classic charismatic animals with no thought given to them also why both rams and horses?
d)only seven options in the total history that is just insane.


I will be redoing the outline of them first, now each type has five stages from the least to the singular patron at the fifth rank
patrons do not directly lead but rather act as an adviser and an exemplar of what the type should be.
Each stage is a lesson in how to be in each class.
Each stage is a slightly different animals with the 5th stage being a harmonious and good look blending of each stage towards an apex
each is built to feel like a easy to use monster stat block version of the class with each tier from one to four made to feel like one of the rough tiers of player character with the fifth made to feel like a demi-god version
there are 13 types one for each phb class plus artificer if new classes were added so would the number increase
I do not have clear ideas for each class but I will list the ones I do have first.

Paladin: you knew this was going to replace the lion one as that one felt like a viable workable one to build better
this is now the cat at its lowest it starts as one of the small cats such as a lynx, cheetah, puma or even the domestic type and is the only one con-fusible for a mundane anthro race.
Stage two looks like almost anything called a leopard, stage three tends to resemble lions, tigers or jaguars varying from pure to a host of mixed options in coat and stage four is a smilodon if it was a humanoid and was fused to its ornamental plate amour.
Cleric: birds I am thinking the first is a dove no idea what the second stage but it needs an eagle and a velociraptor in there somewhere
barbarian: bears are far too obvious and when I think what a barbarian is I think boars would be a better starter model
warlock: bats just bats, both for the contrast with birds and thus cleric and because I want a bat angel.
Fighter: beetles at least for the str heavy armor spec
ranger: here I have an interesting idea use cephalopods as we tend to only get those as antagonists and the arts of the ranger which is hunting, and hiding work rather well with cephalopods, also quad-wield swords.
sorcerer: no idea
rogue: ditto
monk: no ideas that will not end up horrible
druid: this one is hard what with Druid turning into everything else
wizard:???
Artificer: something that is crafty and profits from humans?

Any ideas on the other options or opinions are appreciated.
 

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What has made you pick the guardinals? The issues you outline a common to most if not all celestials are they not? That said, I think it is an interesting idea to add more depth to celestials. I think your class idea is interesting, but I am not sure I understand how this works:

"...now each type has five stages from the least to the singular patron at the fifth rank."
 

I think you'd still want to give them overtly "holy" features, such as a halo (though it can be distinctive, like rainbow-colored) so they don't just look like beastfolk.

As for classes, some ideas:

sorcerer: snakes are almost universally considered magical. You could even put a coutl at the top.
rogue: rodents would fit here.
monk: crane could work, or wading birds in general. Alternatively, they could cycle through various traditional kung-fu animals
druid: echidna, a weird critter named after the mother of monsters
wizard: fox, owl, or other animals noted for intellect. I'd personally prefer foxes.
artificer: Monkey, otter, or other known tool-users.
 

I think you'd still want to give them overtly "holy" features, such as a halo (though it can be distinctive, like rainbow-colored) so they don't just look like beastfolk.

As for classes, some ideas:

sorcerer: snakes are almost universally considered magical. You could even put a coutl at the top.
rogue: rodents would fit here.
monk: crane could work, or wading birds in general. Alternatively, they could cycle through various traditional kung-fu animals
druid: echidna, a weird critter named after the mother of monsters
wizard: fox, owl, or other animals noted for intellect. I'd personally prefer foxes.
artificer: Monkey, otter, or other known tool-users.
Those are solid choices. I particularly like the otter for artificer - that is something I want to see!
 

What has made you pick the guardinals? The issues you outline a common to most if not all celestials are they not? That said, I think it is an interesting idea to add more depth to celestials. I think your class idea is interesting, but I am not sure I understand how this works:

"...now each type has five stages from the least to the singular patron at the fifth rank."
The patron solely occupies the fifth rank as they are synonymous, but I forgot to elaborate, my apologies.

to fix archons and angles is to go back to old texts, the Eladrin got fixed by becoming just elf mk2 thus only one was safe for creativity and making one from scratch is hard.
 

By any chance have you looked at the Agathions from Pathfinder 1st Edition? They are the Pathfinder equivalent of the Guardinals. Agathions – d20PFSRD

There is some mention in the link as to which classes a particular kind of Agathion will closely resemble. For instance, Vulpinals are the Bards amongst the Agathions while the Draconals are more like Clerics.
 

The patron solely occupies the fifth rank as they are synonymous, but I forgot to elaborate, my apologies.
I was actually unclear what you meant by "stages" not the patron. How are stages designated? Is each stage a separate statblock? Are they different animals, different classes, different powers?
 

I was actually unclear what you meant by "stages" not the patron. How are stages designated? Is each stage a separate statblock? Are they different animals, different classes, different powers?
It's more like a growth of power and responsibility, most have a different animal within the same theme, think like dragon stat blocks just here representing tiers of charter levels.
we have roughly four stages of classes given we have 20 levels.
By any chance have you looked at the Agathions from Pathfinder 1st Edition? They are the Pathfinder equivalent of the Guardinals. Agathions – d20PFSRD

There is some mention in the link as to which classes a particular kind of Agathion will closely resemble. For instance, Vulpinals are the Bards amongst the Agathions while the Draconals are more like Clerics.
I will look into them.
 

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